The Rowing Podcast
The Rowing Podcast
Luke McGee: The Erg Test That Changed Everything
Use Left/Right to seek, Home/End to jump to start or end. Hold shift to jump forward or backward.
I sit down with Luke McGee - Former Captain at Brown, Oxford Blue, US National Team vet, and high performance coach at the intercollegiate and Olympic level.
Luke is currently the Head Coach for Women's Rowing at Syracuse University.
https://cuse.com/staff-directory/luke-mcgee/2692
My guest today has achieved extensive collegiate and international coaching success. During his intercollegiate rowing career, he was captain of his team at Brown University, where he held Bruno to an Eastern Sprints title in 2000 and a victory in the ladies' plate at the Henley Royal Regatta in England that same year. He was a member of the Oxford Blue Boat that defeated Cambridge in the 2002 boat race. A six-time U.S. rowing national team member, he rode in the junior, under-23, and senior national team. In 2003, he was part of the gold medal winning four with at the senior world championship. He also won medals at two under-23 World Championships, gold in the eight in 99, and bronze in the eight in 2000. He began his international career with a silver medal in the eight at the 1997 World Rowing Junior Championship. His coaching resume is equally impressive. He was the freshman coach for the heavyweight men at Brown from 2004 to 2007, and at the University of Washington from 2007 to 2012. During those eight years, his crews captured three Eastern Sprints Championship titles, four Pac-10 championship titles, three gold medals, and one silver medal at the IRA National Championship. In 2010, he led the Husky Freshman 8 to Washington's first ever win in the Temple Challenge Cup at Henley. He served as the men's head coach for Team USA from 2012 to 2017, where his crews captured four World Cup medals, one World Championship Medal, and a fourth place finish in the A-final at the 2016 Rio Olympics. He is currently the head coach for women's rowing at Syracuse University. I am proud to have as my guest today on the show, Luke McGee.
SPEAKER_00Thanks, buddy. I appreciate the introduction. We've got to have a little disclaimer here as well, too, that as far as our connection, that we go back to uh coaching at Washington together. Uh yeah, when we first met, we got to give the audience the full, like I said, the full disclaimer of how we know each other, how we came together.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Um I don't know who should really recant that one. I mean, I think uh I was so I was kicking around. I mean, what's the right term? I don't know if kicking around is the right term. Kind of it was kind of like the summer of uh the end of my internship year with uh Princeton. Right. Um helping Greg Hughes and the guys out over there. And I remember have a few, I think an initial phone call with you, which was probably like a all right, who's this guy? And then the finally I had a call with Mike um after that, and uh I got the thumbs up and then yeah, 2011, 2012, I spent a year out at Washington with you.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, you packed it up. I think we basically we had talked to Greg because we knew that we needed, or I knew that knew that I needed an intern for the for the coming year with the freshman, and he was basically, yeah, I got your guy, this guy Matt Rung. And uh and then we kind of you know did our did a bit of homework, talked to you, and next thing we knew you popped up in in Seattle and away we went.
SPEAKER_01I think I popped up like two months early, and you were like, Oh hey. Um well, I'll see you in a few months, but there's not too much to do right now. Yeah, exactly. Which was probably a good thing because I needed to uh I mean I actually uh yeah, my dad and I packed up what was then my Volkswagen Jetta up to the point which was just you know you couldn't use the back seats and what have you, and drove across the country and yeah, just I mean, I think we were in a hotel for a few days looking for a place to be because I was like, I just gotta get out there. Right. We just gotta go. So but uh yeah, that was a fun year, man. We made a lot of good stuff that year.
SPEAKER_00We did. I mean, that was that that was one of the the beauties, I think, of that time, the like those years at Washington there where the staff was it was just a really great staff. Like obviously we had a ton of success, you know, um, including that year that you were there. But I thought one of the brilliant things that Mike did was he really shared that with everybody there. You know, if it was uh, you know, myself kind of being the first assistant and then you and everybody else, it was just basically like everybody was a piece of it. And I thought, yeah, I mean, that's one of the things that really struck me when being out there and being a part of that for five years was how willing he was to share in that success. I think obviously, you know, O'Callahan's had a ton of success out there and won the IRAs countless times and all of that. And but he's he's very quick to share it with others that are at the boathouse. So I mean, I know for my end, that's something that I really appreciated of being there. And um, and certainly that year that you were there, like you you go from kind of a smaller some smaller programs to to a program like that where the numbers are big and you know, I think it's um it's exciting, you know, as an intern there. It's like, hey, here are these, you know, here you go, here's two eights, go do your thing. And you're like, what really? Like you're probably driving around the first time like, whoa, whoa, this is the program that just like won the IRAs again, and like, they're just gonna give me the keys to the car? Okay, uh, all right. Hey, have fun, good luck. So um yeah, it was fun.
SPEAKER_01I remember uh I remember um well, I mean, we had a good group of guys too. I mean, you know, the the the classes were really good. Um, obviously, all the guys that were there at that time. Also, the coaching staff was really fun. I mean, Rick and you and me and Mike, it was actually like a really good balance of people. Like the four of us actually I felt like complimented each other really well. So it was just fun. Yeah, that was a really good year. I think there was just fun.
SPEAKER_00It was good personality, there's confidence, like everybody knew what it was. Like you knew Mike was the man in charge, and you know, I always thought my role was basically like, okay, I'm here I am like the first lieutenant, you know. Like my job entirely is to support him in the mission and all that. And everybody was just super comfortable with what their what their job was, and at the same point, comfortable with it and energetic to do it, um, you know, and trying to find new new levels of speed. So um, yeah, no, it was it was great times. I I loved it.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and learned a lot as well. And I I kind of would echo what you said about Mike. I remember I can't remember when it was. I think it might have been like post-packs, was it pack tens then or pac twelves? I actually don't remember. I think it was pac 12s.
SPEAKER_00I don't think it's I think it just moved, yeah. I think it just moved to pac 12s.
SPEAKER_01Right. Um and I remember I got a text from Mike like the day after what was a pretty successful run. I think I think we swept it. I'd have to look back, honestly. Um, but uh I remember getting a text from Mike being like, hey, you know, remember you you were a part of this too, and you know, you know, I appreciate all your hard work. I was like, whoa, like that, you know, that really meant a lot. And so I think um I think it's just Mark of a good leader, man. You you feel like you're really supported. So definitely. It was a good time. So well, hey, look, this is supposed to be about you.
SPEAKER_00Okay, right. Quick pivot.
SPEAKER_01How much dinosaur barbecue have you had since you got to Syracuse?
SPEAKER_00Uh a decent amount, you know. We know I try and save that for when recruits come to town because if I feel like I overdo it, then it's really not going to be special. So we did a fun thing this year where we were taking uh, you know, kind of recruits to the Friday night soccer game and basically doing a tailgate at the game beforehand, and one of the assistants would run over and grab a whole big pile of dinosaur barbecue, some cornbread, some beans and all that stuff, and and we'd just chow down before going into the game. So I tried to limit myself to to just Friday evening, um, which seemed to work well for my waistline. So I think I'll probably stay with that program.
SPEAKER_01You know, how's the city? How's the transition? How's the how's the shift for you?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, no, transition's been great. You know, um, I think some people ask about you know going from coaching men to women. It's been fantastic. You know, I mean, it's a it's a great team. I mean, they're they're good athletes, they work hard, they do what we ask of them. Um, you know, it's a great department, obviously a power five conference, and um, so it has all those extra amenities as far as support stuff for the athletes. You couldn't ask for more from that end. Um, you know, and as far as transition for the family, it's it's been good. You know, the girls are getting older. We got three of them now. So they've two of them in our elementary school and they're all kind of settled in. And uh a portion of my wife, you know, she's got a job working with the NRF um and helping them with fundraising, especially towards you know, the Olympic Games. Um so it just kind of seems like after the the second year, well, I guess we're not quite done with the second year, kind of feels like we are since there's no spring season, but um, you know, it everyone's kind of hitting their stride. So yeah, things are things are good up here.
SPEAKER_01Cool, man. Good stuff. Um, well, for the for the audience who doesn't usually know uh necessarily a ton about the guests that we have, I kind of like to give a little bit of a personal background. So where did you grow up?
SPEAKER_00So uh I'm a man of a couple spots. I grew up originally uh in Connecticut and was born in Bridgeport and lived in Fairfield for about 14 years, um, and played a whole bunch of different sports, you know, basketball, lacrosse, baseball, like you name it. Um, and then right before my freshman year, actually about a week before my freshman year of high school, I moved out to Chicago um and was living in Chicago down in Lincoln Park for for my four years of school before going on to college. And the move itself was we knew that that was going to happen. That was probably a few years in the making. My dad was working out there and kind of commuting back and forth, um, you know, come back on Friday and then go back out again on to Chicago again on like early Monday morning. So he did that for about two years. And then so we knew that that one was coming. Um, but it was interesting. Like it went from basically living in the suburbs of Connecticut. Um, and it was the choice, okay, hey, we're gonna go live in the suburbs again, like outside Chicago, or are we gonna go live in the city? And at that point, like we we literally dropped my sister off at college on the drive out to Chicago. My brother was already gone because he was at University of Wisconsin. Um, and so it was just me, my dad, and my mom. I'm like, hey, let's let's go live in the city, like let's do something different. Um, and it was awesome, it was great. Like going for again, going from the suburbs to the city, it was like, hey, you can jump on this bus. I mean, I was taken all of a sudden I was like taking the L to hike to school in the mornings. Um, I mean, there were times I'd take the L back home from school and like I get off uh, you know, and go to a Cubs game with some friends or my mom, you know, or something like that. And so I think it just like the the adventure part of it and living somewhere different um ended up being great. I mean, it was the typical thing like that transition, you know, in the first few months of settling into the to the new school and trying to find your rhythm and find what you were doing was um was a challenge. But then once you kind of found your groove, like it was awesome. Um and uh I mean, I loved it. Like I'm still in touch with all those guys and you know, doing our doing our Zoom calls, which a lot of people are doing these days, um, but definitely kind of lifelong friends from that spot.
SPEAKER_01So I mean you talked about basketball, lacrosse, and obviously those didn't stick. So how did you first get how did you first get exposed to rowing?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, right. I mean, I guess so I played lacrosse, you know. I remember growing up, um, my brother played lacrosse, he was on the high school team out there, and I was like the ball boy, right? It was like the typical, like my brother's the oldest, uh Josh, and then my sister Molly, and then and then me, I'm the youngest, right? Um, and there's enough of an age gap where there wasn't like the sip sibling rivalry, you know, and I think that also worked out because it was like, you know, the son, the daughter, and then the son. Um so I really grew up basically like wanting to do what he did, right? So he played lacrosse and Marat was like the ball boy at the at the high school games, um, and and then playing basketball. Yeah, I was always tall, like I was always one of the, you know, if not the tallest, one of the tallest guys in the class. Um and so I played basketball, you know, going out of like the you know, um go to the gym on a Friday night and just play. And I played my freshman year in high school. I kind of played all the way through middle school and all that stuff. And then I went to the the school I went to, Loyola Academy, is outside of Chicago. It's in Wilmette. And um it's actually where Michael, if anybody's watching The Last Dance these days, it's where Michael Jordan's kids went to school, as well as I think a couple other yeah, maybe like Horace Grant and some other guys sent they sent their kids there.
SPEAKER_01Um you couldn't figure out basketball? I mean, come on, you had your T Dops. Okay, okay.
SPEAKER_00He was he was well after my time, okay. You know, uh it was years later that MJ's son turned out there. Um but so I went there and they had lacrosse, right? And um and they were good. Like then they were like state champs. And I had just kind of assumed, like, oh, I'll play lacrosse, you know, like there are a ton of schools out here that are playing, like perfect, but I'll just do that. Um and so I went through that freshman year and I played basketball in the winter, and I was just like, okay, well, that's not really for me. And then a buddy, um I knew I had some friends at that point that were had started rowing, and you know, freshmen could only start rowing in the spring. And I had another friend who was a coxswain, this guy Mark Declean, and he said he was really like, Hey, listen, like you should you should try this. I said, Okay. And so I remember vividly, like it was my lunch period, and he grabbed me and he's like, Hey, we'll go down and I'll teach you a little bit on the rowing machine. Mind you, this coxswain's been at it for like a couple weeks. Like that was like the confidence this kid had, right? And it's like, yeah, I'll teach you about it. I mean, he's been doing it for like two weeks. I was like, Okay, sure. Sounds good. Good coxswain, man. And I know, exactly. You know, and and um he so we had this spot where we used to store our ergs, which we called the cage, which was at the bottom of the stairwell underneath this gym. And it was literally like a 10 by 10 section that we could stand up some ergs, and we had a couple bench poles. You know, part of like the workouts would be like running the stairs that were right by the cage or doing like calf lifts or something silly like that. So he brought me down to the cage and um puts me on the erg and uh and we do a little, you know, uh a little bit of work, you know, probably like a thousand meter piece at some point. And then um I think I came back and I ended up doing I ended up doing like a 2K test like on my own in a pale pair of like leather hiking boots, whalebone whalebone corduroys, like heavy corduroy pants and a t-shirt. Remember, I did this 2K, I think I probably went like 745, 740, I don't know what the heck I went, right? And um and I finish it and it's like the end of the lunch period. And so I literally like wolf down my lunch and haul and haul it to my English class, and I get in the English class, and thank God I'm like in one of the back rows. I am like drenched, you know, like Niagara Falls, like still sweating, and and I just done this test, and I literally had pounded lunch, and I'm like burping lunch for 45 minutes, like okay, I gotta hold it down while we're learning, you know, uh while we're going through this this English class. And but at the same point, like all through that be like, oh man, that was awesome. Like I loved it. I don't know why. I just loved it. And I went home and uh and I was like, hey, like this is what I'm gonna do. This is my I'm gonna row. And mom and dad were like, okay. I mean, they had mentioned it a little bit before. Like my dad, my dad grew up in Ohio on a farm um and played football and ended up getting um, you know, he was he was getting recruited by a bunch of schools, like, you know, Penn State and some other big tens, and then um he was he is, you know, a very smart guy, and they basically and then was like, hey, here's this opportunity to go to Cornell, go to this Ivy League school. Um, and so we ended up going to Cornell and playing football out there, and um that's you know, and obviously met some guys that yeah, yeah, yeah. And he, you know, he it was funny because I I remember I met with um somebody at some point in the athletic department at Cornell and they're like, Oh, your dad played football. I was like, Yeah, and they're like, Well, he my dad, you know, he'd like um would bust tables, and he's like, Oh wow, you know, the coach must really have liked your dad. And I was like, What do you mean? It's like those were jobs like like only the the guys that they really liked would get those jobs. He's like, Oh, wow, that's cool. Um, so obviously he played football there. He played for I think like two years before he um really did a number on his shoulders. And but over the course of that, obviously met guys who wrote, like Cornell was good back then, it was you know early 60s. I mean they're good now, but it was like they were like crushing it, right? Like cover of sports illustrated, all that stuff. Um and so I think when we moved out there, like he knew that the school had rowing. Um and he would probably tell you like he knew that I wasn't like really into the basketball side of things, and so he kind of mentioned it, and he was like, Hey, maybe you should give it a try, like kind of pretty light on it. Um and then it just kind of everything kind of fell into place where I had some buddies that were doing it, and I went down and tried it, and then I kind of came home and they were like, Yeah, that that's awesome, that's great, you know. And um the school Loyola was like the only school at that point within like a three or four hour radius that had rowing. I think the closest one was down in Indiana, down at Culver Military Academy. And now you look at it and it's everywhere, right? Like it's just everywhere. Um, and some great teams in in the Chicago area, but it wasn't it was there was not there was nothing. Like we were rowing on on the Lincoln Park Lagoon, it's a thousand meters, you know, and you gotta watch out for like the portageons that got chucked in there, or you know, or like uh, you know, uh it was it but it was awesome. It was like you know, we had no water. We're rowing in this boathouse, which is like like a bomb, you know, shelter, like built into the side of a hill. Um totally like dank and dark and you know, but it was great. It was like everything I wanted it to be, you know, and totally, totally hooked me. Um, you know, and so I rode rode all three years or three and a half years there and made friends for a for a lifetime, and then it really kind of set me on my course.
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. Isn't it there's something funny about um those type of beginnings? You know, you're talking about like, you know, the ergs in the cage underneath some set of stairs, and like, you know, it's just and the the bomb shelter turned rowing club. I mean, I feel like I actually uh my own my own rowing beginnings were very similar in that sense. I mean, you know, what's that run club was an established club and what have you, but it wasn't, you know, super ritzy. I was I felt like I actually fell in love with the grit of it. It's I really find it very interesting to hear people say they almost that that kind of gritty feeling was actually a very attractive thing for them in a weird way.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Like I was always competitive. Like I grew up, I remember when I was young, like my favorite sports story was Miracle on Ice. And I remember I was really young, and um, you know, there's a TV movie, a made-for-tv movie, which the younger listeners may not exactly know what that is, but the it was split upon two nights, right? And they did like an hour one night and an hour the next. And this is way before the movie Miracle. This was like, you know, the Disney one, right? Yeah, yeah. This is this is this is in the 80s. Like Miracle came out in like 04, right? The Disney one. This is like '84, you know, or if that. And I remember my parents, um, for maybe I saw an ad for it. And I was like, hey, listen, like, I really want to watch that movie. But of course, you know, I was I was young, it's like past my bedtime. And so they taped it, you know, the old VHS tape recorder. And uh, you like pause it, you gotta pause it for the commercials. I mean, my kids these days are like, what are commercials? Um, and uh and so yeah, they had to pause it for commercials, they did it two nights in a row, you know, an hour one night, and then they came back and they taped it the next night. Um, I almost wore that tape out. Like I could recite that movie. Um and I think part of it, I definitely I don't know why, but I definitely trivially like I was just like enamored with the Olympics. I was like, this is like the coolest thing. Like I just think like USA and you know, competing for your country, and then obviously that's that story itself is amazing. I mean, it's obviously there's no there's a reason why it's one of the best, great, you know, the greatest sports stories of all time. Um but it it was the same thing. It's like those little moments that when you kind of look back kind of grab you. It's like, you know, that you didn't think of it much then, but looking back now, it's like, yeah, that seed was was planted, you know, a while ago, and something that you might think was pretty uh small back then. You may not even notice it can have a pretty profound effect upon you.
SPEAKER_01I would imagine. I mean, uh, you know, maybe I'm jumping ahead a little bit here, but do you feel that, you know, I remember very vividly um when I was working under you at uh UW that intern year, you there was kind of, you know, we basically it was kind of like a a guide for the guys over the winter time, the the freshman guys, like, if you want to work out, these are some of the things that will help you, uh, which was really good for them at that time because you know a lot of these guys would would go home. It would be it was the same thing for me in college. You'd go home and it's like what you know, without any structure. You can work out, but it's not the same, not the same intent. Um, but I remember that kind of um that guide that you showed with the guys had a had a quote at the top from Herb Brooks. There were a lot of quotes, probably, and one of them was like the likes feed the wolf and things like that. And I was like, oh wow, wait a minute, that's from like the uh the U Team USA hockey. Um I know that guy. Um do you feel like that actually was even a seed for wanting to become a coach down the road?
SPEAKER_00I don't know. I mean, I I think it was a seed for wanting to do something at that level, you know, wanting to pursue I didn't I obviously had no idea whether or not I was gonna get there or not, but it I definitely wanted I wanted to compete at that level. Um and it wasn't gonna be in basketball, like I wasn't gonna be a pro basketball player, you know, there was no like pro lacrosse, you know, but I wanted to pursue something um and luckily I found something where I could you know where I was pretty good at it and it would also allow me, like if I if I was willing to work hard enough, like I could see the improvements coming, but I knew I wanted to compete I wanted to see how high I could go, if that makes sense. You know, I really wanted to try and get to the highest possible level. Um and you know, obviously I didn't I didn't quite get there as an athlete. Um, you know, I got cut in 2000 when I was still in college. I went back and tried out and then got cut again in 04 from the Olympic squad. You know, I raced it uh worlds a few times, but um but I think it was still there, you know, in and wanting to do that as a coach. Um you know, and that's why like I think you know, coaching the under 23 Tim, I think it was that. That summer twenty twelve, um after you were there kind of doing the doing the under 23 team and then and then pursuing the Olympic thing as a coach, too. Like, you know, it was almost a sense of a bit of unfinished business. Like, okay, let me let me see, let me see what I can do. Let me, you know, um, let me see how far I can kind of take this. So I don't know if it was planned at that point, but definitely the idea of like, I want to see how far I can go, and I want to try and r you know, race or compete and try and be the best at the highest possible level I can achieve.
SPEAKER_01So I never really understood where Oxford fit in. I know that you wrote of the blue boat, but it you know, it usually it's maybe a post-Olympics or post-national team or what have you. You know, where did that fit in for you and and what was that like?
SPEAKER_00Yeah, um, I mean, it was definitely a defining piece of of my career. Like I love uh I love history um and being a part of something that is kind of larger than than oneself. And so junior year at Brown, you know, Daniel Topolski, he came over and was kind of going around the States talking to some different programs. And I think I couldn't remember if it was that year or maybe later in the year when I ended up reading his book, True Blue, um, and just really loved the idea of competing uh in the race. And obviously, like much many rowers, like I hadn't ever done a year abroad, and so the chance to go over and live in a different country and go to like one of the world's greatest universities and be a part of this you know huge race, like this tradition, was super appealing. Um, and so I applied the winter, or maybe like December or November of my senior year, um, and ended up getting in and going over. And I think, you know, would I have been better served national team wise to stay and like and row that year and kind of really get my grounding on the senior level? Um, you know, maybe, but honestly, like I wouldn't take it back. Like I loved it. I thought it was I mean, it's some of the best friends that I have. I mean, again, like the whole experience um rowing in that race and being a part of that tradition, and you know, obviously winning it was is a big piece of it, but I mean, those are guys that I'm still in touch with, like, you know, they were at my wedding and I was at theirs, and um, they're just they're good, they're great friends, and it's um it was awesome. Like it was just uh it was a great experience. And you know, now that people not not not a lot of people have the opportunity to do that, and for me, it was really special.
SPEAKER_01Luke, central to the rowing podcast is the idea of story. So, as somebody who's been in the sport for a long time, I I imagine you have many of these. Uh, can you share with us a personal experience in the sport that left a strong or positive impact on you and maybe those around you? Um how did it how did that experience change you? And how did you approach rowing and other endeavors differently as a result of that experience? Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um I've been thinking about this one, you know, and I was I was initially, I was like, oh, okay, maybe there's a a coaching story or you know, a story kind of at at the higher level, if it's like racing at worlds or the boat race, or you know, striving to make the team and not quite making it. And but then I was uh I was thinking about it again last night, and I was actually kind of took me a little bit back further. Like this one experience all of a sudden kind of popped into my head, and it was really like the junior year in high school. Um, and let's see, that was like 96, 95, fall of 95, fall of 95. Um, and I remember at some point in that time period being talking to a buddy of mine, being like, hey, listen, they were talking about schools and universities, and be like, oh man, I think I think I want to go to Brown. And they were ripping off national championships at that point, right? Like 93, 94, 95. And one of them would be like, man, like you're not good enough to go there. This was when you used to get like rowing news or rowing illustrated, like, or sorry, rowing news in the in the newspaper format, right? And that was how you saw race results, right? It was like this this like small newspaper, and it would have like the dual race results or sprints or IRAs or whatever, as well as like pictures and articles, right? And that was how we were connected to the universities and to like the kind of the larger community out there. Like nobody had, I didn't have internet. I had like one friend who had internet with like dial up. Um and I remember being like, hey man, I think I really want to go to one of these to go to Brown. And people be like, you're not, you're not good enough to do that. So then I remember fast forward a bit to like the fall to that fall of 95, and um I ended up doing like some junior team testing, and it was a 20-minute piece. Um, and we did it, it was like this old Model B erg, and doing it um in the boat bay at our boat house down on Lincoln Park. And again, it was this was like this dark, dingy, you know, musty boathouse. And there were two of us that were doing it, me and this guy, Al Jahan. Al was like one of the world's greatest human beings. He ended up going to Northeastern and rowing there, and he was the captain of the of the team that year. Um and we did this 20-minute piece, and um, I mean, I didn't, I didn't I didn't even know what good was back then. Like we were t we were a tiny club, we weren't very fast, like we were great friends, um, but I had no idea of like what like the larger landscape was in rowing. Um, I didn't even know what fast was. You know, I didn't know I didn't know I was supposed to go for splits on this kind of a thing. Um and so I ended up doing it, and I remember having a feeling like, oh, okay, like I thought that was pretty good. Like always all I was trying to do was compete with the guy next to me and trying to beat Al. Um and so I submitted the score, and that Thanksgiving, so it must have been like an October score, something like that. I was at my aunt's house in Ohio because we were doing like a big family Thanksgiving. And it was the same thing. Like back then, like the national team, it would be like hundreds of names, like when the sheet, when the list would come out. Like it was like the coolest thing. It was like everybody would do it, you could see who you were competing against. Now it's like they don't even do it anymore. But it was like it was really awesome, and it really generated this sense of like being a part of a larger uh community trying to trying to achieve this you know mission or trying to you know compete with one another. Um I remember I called a buddy. Um I call I can't remember who I called a buddy, I think, and I asked basically that the results had come out. Um and I'd actually finished top. I finished, I had the top score for that month for national team testing. Um, and being like, wow, okay, like maybe I do belong. Like maybe I could maybe I could do this, maybe I could really do this at a at a high level. Um and and just being really proud of that fact and feeling like again, like with my background with sports, like I was always okay, but never great. And but I wanted to be, and I wanted, and I and I liked the idea, like I could work hard and have success. And so that test, I remember really, I was like, I can do this, you know, I can I can row at the next level. I can, you know, and of course, so then I go to the junior camp that summer and I got crushed. Like I didn't know how to row, you know. I think I made it to the first cup, but people like, oh yeah, Luke, yeah, you you had that that great test, that great erg. You'd be like, oh, okay. Um, I think that was my thing. I did, yeah, right. Yeah, but but then it again, it because of that test. I felt like because of that test, it opened up a ton of opportunities. You know, like again, like the rowing program I was at, there was no rowing within four hours of me. You know, there was no Midwest rowing, there was nothing. And so that kind of helped put me on the map as far as like recruiting. You know, I went to this junior camp. I got cut the first week. I didn't know how to row. We rode on a thousand meters of water in Chicago. I remember going out, it was at, it was um, it was in Connecticut. The camp was held in Connecticut that year at the gunnery school. And remember going to the lake and and just rowing, but oh my god, like when do we spin? Like, like when do we turn? Like I was so used to turning after like four or five minutes. It was again the same thing. It was like an entirely different sport. Um, you know, I get cut the first week and I say, hey, you should go, you should try rowing the single um, you know, this this summer. I said, okay, so I went to Craftsbury, and lo and behold, there's the Danish lightweight four training in Craftsbury. You know, watching those oh yeah, and watching those guys train. And then remember, so then even and even funkier, like it's funny how it all connects. Like you fast forward to like 2014, 15. Um, and one of the guys from that light four had come out and he helped coach with us with the US squad for a little bit. And I remember having a conversation with him and be like, dude, like I watched you guys train in that four, and it was so profound. They would do these hard steady state trips up and down the lake, and they would come down to the end of the lake, and one side would smash the blades in the water, and the other side would take like five full strokes, and then bang, they would take it off again. I mean, they talk about steady state. It was okay, we're gonna do 60 minutes of steady state. It was like 60 minutes of steady state, like or whatever it was, you know. I mean, like, I'd be like, whoa, they are serious. And then I went to the Olympics that summer to watch because my grandfather lived down in South Carolina, and they won. You know? Um, and so it's funny, it just it just has this feeling where it all kind of for me kind of goes back to that one test because it kind of got me, it got me a foot in the door for the junior team to try out. Yeah, I got cut, but then it opened my eyes to seeing like, oh, this is how fast guys are going. This is what rowing is a little bit more. You know, and then it gave me some advice. Hey, you should go try and row this single and go into cross brand, watching that Danish form, like, whoa, you know, you know, and then seeing those guys win at the Olympics. And same thing be like, okay, like I want to do this, and I want to do this at a high level, you know, and and you know, and then I luckily I went back and tried out for the junior team in '97. And the same thing with that. It was just like I wrote the for this guy, Todd Jesdale, and I was probably on the verge of being cut again. And I went out in a in a boat, like an afternoon boat, um, coached by Buzz Congram and Stan Bergman, where they put the biggest ergs out there, and just something kind of clicked. Um, and they were like, I don't know what you just did, but keep doing it.
unknownYou know.
SPEAKER_00Um, and I ended up making the eighth that summer in the same thing. It was like, oh, like this is rowing, this is racing, this is what we can do when we row well together, this is how fast we can go, you know, and then the chance to to compete internationally. Um, again, it was just like the along like along these steps of what the doors being open through kind of hard work, you know, and that's kind of what I would tell kids. It's like, yeah, like as long as you're trying to achieve the highest possible level, whether or not you're gonna get there, I don't know. But at the very least, you're gonna be better because of it. Like I had no idea if I was gonna end up at Brown or you know, under 23. I just I just wanted to try and see how fast I could go and and and push myself in that. And, you know, I guess some doors opened, or maybe I maybe I made them open myself, uh, open them myself because of that work. But um again, like that that test, junior year in high school, was one where it was like the light bulb kind of went off, where it's like, yeah, you're in this little bubble in Chicago at this club, which is awesome with all these good friends, but you can you can take this to the next level if you want to.
SPEAKER_01Sweet. Very good story. I I can't, you know, I'm uh as a former lightweight rower. I mean, talk about that's pretty sweet. I mean, I know all about the Danis Lightweight 4, and I mean that was a pretty special crew. I mean, those guys basically ran the table on that event for a long, long time. Yeah, I mean, they were like the standard, and that's like your first exposure to like super high-level rowing was like the very highest level of high-level rowing.
SPEAKER_00I remember I had to work up the courage. They were they were leaving for Atlanta and I was still at camp, and I went up and I had like the whatever, they give me the t-shirt for the junior national team. And I was I went up to one of the guys, I was like, hey, uh, would you be maybe interested in trading shirts? Um, and the guy's like, uh, sure. And I think he had like a Danish, it was like a you know, a shirt from like maybe like one of their clubs. I mean, I wore that shirt religiously. I thought it was like the coolest thing, you know. And and they and it was like Eske, like Ebsen was the stroke, and he remember, and I I I still have video of them training um in Craftsbury, and they were so good. I remember watching them race in Henley too in 2000 when they took the British four down to the line, like this light four. They were just so tough, and they were so good. Um and watching them train and how they raced, it you know, it was impressive.
SPEAKER_01Very cool. I also said something about um how much water you do or don't need. I mean, what you were saying about them spinning, I've heard this about them because I've I've actually it was like my last year grooting for UW. I actually made it to that lake in Denmark at one point. I was like, oh my god, this is the one. Because you know, I'd heard these stories too, where you're like, oh yeah, you were they had to learn how to be like they had to learn how to spin that thing in like 10 seconds. It was like as hard as you can go, spin, go, because we don't have the time. And that that alone kind of tells you something, like, yeah, you don't need 4,000 meters, you don't need perfect anything, you just need to learn how to make your environment work really well for you. And they and they did, and those guys were like the champions, I mean, across the board.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I mean, Thomas Paulson was a guy who came out and worked, and we we talked for a while about that, and it was all about like how the guys, you know, they had jobs, right? And they couldn't, because their jobs they didn't have a lot of extra time, and so they just had to come down and be really efficient with it. And they basically had to sit down as a boat and say, okay, how are we gonna do this? Like, how do we want to do this, you know, as far as efficiency and how we're gonna approach this? And I think with them being on that, you know, that one mindset, that one approach, uh, was pretty vital for what they were doing. But yeah, they didn't have time to waste and they would go hard all the time. Like you'll be clear. It's like there aren't a lot of easy miles in there for them. You know, it's like we gotta get our work done and we gotta be efficient about it, and that means we're gonna go hard and then we're gonna get on to the next thing. But they were super impressive.
SPEAKER_01I remember hearing stories about um like square blades off the dock, full slide, full pressure, immediately. It was like, whoa, you know, there's no like pear. I mean, you know, that might be exaggerated a little bit, but it wouldn't surprise me. There's just that kind of mentality of like, yeah, stroke one uh is on, because guess what? In 90 minutes I gotta be at the hospital because I'm a doctor. So um pretty cool. If your closest friends could only describe you with only three words, meaning three distinct adjectives, which words do you hope they would use?
SPEAKER_00Uh good question. I would say hopefully uh this is a brain teaser. I would say hopefully, you know, as friends, I like to be known as a loyal friend. Fun. I'd like to be, you know, somebody that brings some energy to it and and committed, you know. Um committed to an endeavor. I think again, like that's what makes this team sport so uh so fun is getting all your friends together and everybody being committed to that team endeavor.
SPEAKER_01Luke, what jolt you out of bed every morning? What gets you excited emotionally, spiritually?
SPEAKER_00Uh I mean for me, you know, I haven't had the time necessarily in in coaching as uh some of the other coaches maybe you're talking with. Like I'm I'm I feel like I'm still kind of young to it. Um, but it's still that it's still the athletes. It's still, you know, the opportunity to go to work and work with these young athletes and see them uh push themselves and and achieve their goals, you know, and watching boats come together, you know, from a technical standpoint, from a speed standpoint, watching them break through barriers, um, you know, trusting one another. Uh it's the team atmosphere when it's really when you've been a part of one that's been special and to see it come together, uh there's nothing like it.
SPEAKER_01Well, on the flip side of that, what turns you off?
SPEAKER_00Uh wasted talent. You know, I think people you know, I think from a mantra, if there there are plenty of people, plenty of talented people out there where it's just wasted. Um and I think that's that's a sad thing. You know, I think uh the willingness to to do the hard work is key. Um there's nothing more frustrating than somebody who's not who's not gonna put 100% into it.
SPEAKER_01Who's someone you admire in Ryan?
SPEAKER_00Oh man, a lot of people. Um, I admire Paul Cook, who gave him my start. You know, I mean I didn't know what the heck I was doing. Um I had never coached before. You know, and he basically said, here you go, go for it. And I remember this one of the first days I on the Seacon being like, I have no idea if I even know what I'm doing. You know, I'm like, I have no clue. Um and he was so great about just being like, remember, we talk about workouts and be like, yeah, yeah, I don't think you should, you know, that that probably's not gonna work, but you should go out and try it anyway and figure out why it doesn't work for you. You know, he just he gave me free reign of it, and at the same point, he was like a really great person to bounce ideas off of. Like John Murphy, the mur and Phoebe Murphy, like they were right upstairs in the boathouse when I started too, and they were same, like they were super supportive. I would uh ask ideas, this or that. And remember one time uh we're talking about doing like 500s or 60 stroke pieces. I was like, John, how many pieces do you do when you go out there and they do it? Do that. And he's going, geez, Luke. He's like, You think too much. He's like, I just go out there and do them, and then I stop when I think they've done enough. You know, it was like this guy who's like arguably the greatest women's coach ever, you know. Um, like, ah man, you think too much. You know, I still get a kick out of the fact that John and Steve Gladstone were high school roommates, right, at Kent.
SPEAKER_01That's so you have like No, that's pretty sweet.
SPEAKER_00The greatest men's coach, arguably the greatest men's coach ever, and the greatest women's coach ever. And they were high school roommates at Kent, you know, and um my wife rode for John at Brown, and we ended up going to um his oldest son's wedding. And okay, there's John and Steve hanging out, you know, and you're just like, man, like to spend some time with those guys. Um, they're hysterical. I mean, they're they're great. Um, you know, we talked about before Mike, uh Callahan at Washington. Like I was super appreciative of the time that I spent out there and and how he ran things and allowing me to be a part of it and helping any way I could, you know. And I think every every coach that lets you kind of jump in their launch and just listen to to how they're coaching, you know. Um I've certainly borrowed a lot over the years from a lot of different coaches.
SPEAKER_01What's your favorite boat class?
SPEAKER_00Ah, the eight, no doubt. Speed, speed and power. I think there's just nothing like seeing an eight get up to speed and you know, seeing everybody able to row, you know, the same stroke together, and um, you know, that that commitment that it takes and that willingness to go hard together.
SPEAKER_01What about racing distance? What's your favorite?
SPEAKER_00Uh, I would say 2K. You know, the the 2,000 meter piece is is just perfectly long enough where there's gonna be some drama there at the end of the race. Any shorter, and you might be able to to fake it a little bit, like just barely kind of hang on. I think a 2k is like just you hear you hear people talk about all the time, oh, if it was just five strokes longer, well it's not. Well, if it was five strokes shorter, well, guess what? It's not, you know, it's 2,000 meters. There's a reason why it's 2,000 meters, and it's always intriguing that you can have a crew that wins by like you know, like a foot on the line, and you think about okay, we just went 2,000 meters and we had a foot separation. So I just think it's the perfect distance.
SPEAKER_01Do you have a favorite pre-race mantra to prepare yourself?
SPEAKER_00Not a mantra, but I always liked when I was competing, like when I was warming up, I would warm up and then I would kind of remove myself from the situation for a moment. You know, like if I was in the erg room, you know, I might I kind of might walk into another room for a second, just kind of find a quiet moment just to kind of center myself and and take a quick second just to calm and then and then kind of step back into the environment before doing the test. And that seemed to work well for me.
SPEAKER_01What's your favorite race course and or favorite regatta and why? Oof.
SPEAKER_00I would say Worcester, which may not be high on people's list. I was trying to determine this one last night. But I've just I've got some really good memories from that course. I love, I mean, people hate the warm-up area. I think it's just, I mean, this tiny warm-up area where it's like intimate, right? Like you're just basically like sniffing each other out before the race, and then you're under the bridge, and the announcer's voice is like booming underneath the bridge, um, and it goes right past the beach where the crowds and the tents and all of that. You know, I just and the and especially the final when the sun's kind of setting and it's starting to get a little bit dark. It to me, like that atmosphere is like college rowing. I I thought it was awesome.
SPEAKER_01I was gonna say that is definitely not high on many people's lists. Usually that's on the top of people's I hate this bracelets. I know, I know, because the wind blows.
SPEAKER_00I know. I mean, I was okay, like maybe Lucerne, like again, like Lucerne was amazing, you know, as an athlete and as a coach. I can remember when I was coaching, like you send the people out for Lucerne, and you go on like you, you know, or like they'd finish their row and then you go on like a midday jog and you're jogging around, and it's like cows and the pasture, and you know, it's you're in Switzerland, and oh my god, it's amazing, it's gorgeous. And and it is like it is definitely one of my favorite places to row and to race and the town, and like again, like the whole atmosphere. Like, there's a reason why they hold the some of the top regattas at Lucerne, and it's perfect, right? It's great. Again, just from like a memory perspective and the atmosphere. I don't know. Like, I loved, I thought Worcester was great. I love Worcester.
SPEAKER_01What profession other than your own would you like to attempt?
SPEAKER_00Man, carpenter. I like to build things. I would like to, you know, if that's a team or I don't know. There's satisfaction in in in in putting something together. Partly occasionally a daydream of like kind of fun to to build a house. You know, like to build a build a cabin, start to finish. Like, what would that feel like? Um You know, I don't necessarily have those skills, but uh I imagine it'd be really fulfilling.
SPEAKER_01What profession would you not like to do?
SPEAKER_00Anything that requires me to be strapped to a desk all day long. I think we are lucky to be able to to go outside and and to work with you know. Young motivated athletes, you know, and and be in a spot where we can have changing atmospheres if it's a training camp here or racing there. Or again, just I think sometimes you take it for granted. Like even obviously those days where it's like sleeting sideways and you're out there in the coaching launch or you know, days of Washington where it was just pouring rain and you're in like 19 layers of clothes, you know, sometimes it could be hard to, you know, feel feel grateful for that. But um, I think just the opportunity to be able to get out there and uh to be outside for a little bit and to have that mix, just to I think being strapped to a desk all day long would be really challenging.
SPEAKER_01Well, to this day, why are you still hooked on rowing? Has this changed from what hooked you originally?
SPEAKER_00No, I mean, I think, you know, there's a going back to the earlier question about like a story, right? I had a really profound moment. The first year I was coaching, you know, I was lucky we we came together and we had a good boat and we won sprints. I remember having this moment um watching them on the dock. And again, it for me it was this journey going from the fall, being like, I really don't even know what I'm doing or how to go about doing this. Um, and that process of kind of figuring it out a little bit, and then you know, the the boat they won sprints that year and seeing them on the dock and seeing their reaction and seeing their, you know, it was a real transition moment for me going from athlete because I had just been an athlete like a year previously to being a coach. This I find real joy um and enjoyment here of watching their reaction. Like I'm very fulfilled seeing them achieve what they wanted to achieve, and that's still the same. You know, I think it's the opportunity to be a part of a team. I've always loved team sports. I've never been somebody who's really like enjoyed rowing the single or doing like individual pursuit. Like I think there's I really get a lot of energy and excitement from working with a group of people and seeing them buy in and seeing them work hard and seeing them um achieve what they want to achieve, um, and being a small help along that way uh is something that still excites me. Um that's why I'm still doing that.
SPEAKER_01If you could give uh one positive piece of advice to each of the following types of people, what would you say to a rower, a coxswain, and a coach?
SPEAKER_00For the rower, I would say um hard work first and ability second. You know, and I think coupled with that, I'll I'll give two pieces is um try and attain the highest possible level. And don't worry if you fail along the way, you know, if you fall on your face. It's it's a spot where mistakes are okay, but try and try and push to the next level and you'll surprise yourself, especially if it's hard work first and ability second. For the coxswain, hmm, that's a tough one. I would say it's I mean it's almost the same thing. Um don't be afraid of making mistakes. Uh you know, you're gonna make some. And um, you know, if that's what you're calling a certain situation or you know, you know, kind of what you're doing with the with the boat, I would say for the coxswain is like, you know, keep trying new things, you know, listen to different tapes. Keep trying and keep trying different approaches until you find what is your own. Don't try and be a copycat. Um, but keep trying to find your own approach.
SPEAKER_01Got it. And what about the coach?
SPEAKER_00Um for the coach, I would say get out in as many launches as you possibly can. You know, I think um like I'll be the first to say like I said before, even is um I've definitely borrowed slash stolen ideas for from tons of coaches, you know, and and how they're doing it, you know, what they're saying, how they're saying it, when they're saying it. Um, and I think just getting out there and in tons of different launches and trying to constantly um, you know, if it's working on like improving your vocabulary or your eye or like, you know, just having those kind of conversations, watching video. I mean, you know, like I'm still watching like Harry Mann is like he the guy's a legend, you know. Um, I still watch videos of him coaching. I'm at my desk on my computer, like cranking up the volume as loud as I can, trying to hear a glimmer of him coaching back in the day. You know, I remember when I first started rowing, or I first started coaching, I was rowing. I was also still rowing, and I was going out, like Charlie Bo, Charlie Butt would coach uh a buddy of mine and myself. And then I would go back and I would coach in the afternoon at Brown, and um and I would steal some of those ideas, or I'd be out rowing in the single the next morning, thinking about what I had said in the coaching launch the night before, and be like, that doesn't make sense. Like that's it's like no, no, this word makes more sense, or it feels like this, you know? And so I think having a chance to listen to to a lot of coaches, and then I would say if you can, like also like do some rowing of your own and try and figure out okay, what does this feel like? You know, describe it to yourself when you're rowing. I thought that really helped me.
SPEAKER_01Well, Luke, it's been great having you on, great reconnecting with you. We got to talk more often. Um, this was really fun. Um, and uh yeah, man. Hopefully uh we can we can do this again sometime, or if you're out on the west coast or vice versa, I'm on the east coast. I gotta catch up with you when this all settled down, settles down and I gotta see you in person.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, that'd be awesome. I'm sure I mean as I tell my assistants, I'm like, every time I start a story, I'm always like, I'm sorry, I always tell stories. But yeah, it'd be awesome to do it again. And certainly when this all when this all breaks, let's get together in person. I think that'd be uh that'd be fantastic.