The Rowing Podcast
The Rowing Podcast
Sam Dommer - The Year Off: Know Why You Row
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I chat with my friend and colleague Sam Dommer about his year of reflection and rebuilding that catapulted his rowing career forward. For the many athletes whose seasons are on hold, this story seems particularly relevant. Enjoy.
https://www.teamusa.org/us-rowing/athletes/Sam-Dommer
My guest today is a friend of mine and a former colleague from the UW Rawing program. He wrote at Washington from 2009 to 2014. His intercollegiate career is marked with consistent success. He was a part of the 2010 Undefeated Freshman 8 under Luke McGee and went on to win the 2010 Temple Cup. He was a member of the varsity eight in 2012, 2013, and 2014. With each boat winning the national championship each year. He wrote for the U.S. national team from 2014 to 2016, and was in the 2016 men's eight and placed fourth at the Rio Olympic Games. He coached the U from 2016 to 2019, guided the third varsity eight to a national championship in 2018. Summer of that year, he coached the Washington Eight that won the Temple Challenge Cup, testing home favorites Oxford Brooks, and setting the current Temple Cup course record. In 2019, he coached the 2v8 to a silver medal at the IRA. All three years, Washington captured the 10-Ike team points trophy. I'm happy to welcome Sam Dahmer. So Sam. Matt. Where are you from originally?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, home is Folsom, California. So it's a little suburb outside of Sacramento. Sacramento is like in the central valley of California, so we got tons of agriculture there. Folsom's really interesting because we're like right in the middle of the Sierra Nevadas and Tahoe and San Francisco. And so you're like 90 minutes from your own adventure. Great place to grow up. Loved it. Born and raised there until I came up to Washington.
SPEAKER_00What about uh what about family? Mom and dad, brothers, sisters. What's the family situation?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. Um mom and dad are both engineers. Mom is a mechanical engineer, my dad is an electrical engineer. Um, so there was always some tiffs at dinner talking about which one was better. Uh my dad said that he used to deal with the black magic. You know, that was his go-to line because no one understands electricity, apparently. I have a sister. She lives in Charleston, South Carolina. She's a nurse. She's married to an Air Force Loadmaster. Don't get to see her too much, but we're we're talking about getting out to Disney World in in October, and I just she just had a daughter, so go see my niece and have some good family time.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha. Well, other than esports, which you and I were joking about before this, um, what about non-sport-related hobbies? What else keeps you busy?
SPEAKER_01That's a good question. For me, I I was thinking about that, and hobbies is a is a weird term. Is it something that you do every week or something you do every day? I after I left my after I left the coaching job at UW, I was in a transition period. I didn't quite know what I wanted to do next, and so I guess a hobby of mine was we did a pretty big remodel on the house. Um that entailed you know, vaulting the ceilings, taking walls down, um, new insulation, new drywall, new electrical work, uh installing natural gas to the to the space. So the hobbies include construction, I guess, just trying to figure that whole thing out. Super fortunate Kelsey's dad is extremely hands-on with that sort of stuff and has a wide breadth of knowledge, and so I was leaning on him so much. There was a point in time when everything was gutted in our living room, and I was like, well, I guess there's no turning back now. Like, we gotta start building up. Other than that, cycling, you know, just cycling, woodworking, a little construction around the house, and um, yeah, that's it.
SPEAKER_00What was your first exposure to rowing? How'd you get into it?
SPEAKER_01Okay. First exposure to rowing, super young. I live about five minutes away from Lake Natoma. Lake Natoma's where Capital Crew, the club I rode at in high school, rose out of. It's also like, as everyone knows who probably listens to this podcast, is the one of the major race courses in the United States. They have NCAAs there, they have the IRAs, Pac-12s, Wii Ras, um, Youth Nationals have been there a couple years. And so with that, they installed a buoy line. And I remember when I was like 12, and I didn't start roaming until I was 15. Maybe I was like nine or nine to twelve. We would be driving on 50, and you get a glimpse of the race course. And I would always think to myself, like, why are they installing swimming lanes in Lake Natoma? Like, what is that? Fast forward a couple years. A buddy of mine who I who I grew up with rode the year before me, and he was just like talking all about it. He was just obsessed with it. Um told me I had to try it out. My dad wanted me to quit my other hobby, which was esports. Um, so I was just gaming all the time, and he was like, Okay, you gotta do something outside. You've been you just go to school and then come home and sit on the computer. I was like, okay. So I'll do it for two weeks. If I hate it, I hate it, I'm not going back. My dad was like, that's more than fine. So for two weeks I tried it out. I remember the the first practice was definitely an eye-opening experience. Um, got the talk, got the got the kind of gist of what everything is about. Uh rowing is a perfect team sport where you know accountability, and so you gotta be into it. You gotta make sure you're showing up every single day. I was like, okay, you know, I could do that. I got two weeks. And then we proceed to do like 20 jumpies, 10 push-ups, and then we run like half a mile. And I remember on this half mile run, I'm a little overweight at this time. Like, my calves are cramping up. Both of them, boom, left one, right one, smoked. I don't even make it to the end point by the time people are running back. And so like I stop and I turn around. I start running back with them, and like they get, I think this is like a quarter mile out. So I run a half mile total when everyone else runs a full mile. I get to like the meeting area, and we do more jumpies, and I'm doing these jumpies, and I've never had this happen in my life besides this one point. But I lose vision in my eyes, like I can't see anything. And I talked to my dad about that day, and he said that he picked me up, and he thought he was like, oh my god, we're not even gonna make it two weeks. But within those first two weeks, it's you hang out with like the same group of guys and gals, the coxswains, and you start to form a bond and you start to you start to get a taste of what the sport is. And after those two weeks, I I didn't have a doubt. I was like, Yeah, I'm gonna go for the whole year, you know. I saw a little improvement of myself, I could run that full mile. A couple of these teammates who were way fitter than me at the time were cheering me on, which I never had an environment like that before, so I loved that. And yeah, the coach was extremely supportive. She her name was Vanessa Daviro. She wrote at UW2, and it was great. It was a great experience. So that's how I got into the sport. Almost blacking out and falling falling over in front of everyone.
SPEAKER_00What was the thing that hooked you? Because you stay with rowing for a long time. What was the what was the hook?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I think that there's different layers of hooks depending where you are in in your rowing career, for lack of a better word. I think novice year, you know, finding a good group of guys in high school, you know, you get some sort of sense of competitiveness. Then when you go to college, that just all gets thrown out the window and you're back to not really knowing what's going on anymore. Um I think the underlying theme of of it all though is definitely the group, the accountability, and and figuring out the the limits that you can push and um breaking barriers. I think that's what hooks me. You know, like a year ago you're like, there's no way I could break 630 on a 2K. And then a year later you're doing it consistently. Like that kind of growth and progress really hooked me.
SPEAKER_00Well, what story do you have for us today? What do you want to share with our listeners?
SPEAKER_01My story is unconventional. It really has nothing to do with rowing, but it has everything to do with rowing for me. Uh, the story that I have is when I decided to quit rowing and take a year off and just focus on school.
SPEAKER_00So when was this?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so it was after my freshman year college. Um freshman year, like I said previously, was a whirlwind. Anyone who goes through a freshman year in a in an institution in a sport as intense as rowing knows exactly what I'm talking about. Is you have no idea what's going on. Like your expectations and and everything that you knew about it just get thrown out the window. But you're figuring it out and it's so exciting, and you're seeing such good growth, but it's extremely challenging. I remember you walking across the IMA field, which we needed to do to get from the dorms to the boathouse in the middle of the winter time, when it was like dark and kind of drizzling, you know, husky weather shout out makes you tough. But I remember as a freshman, it was just like, oh man, I know that we have to do 3x20 on the erg. And I just need to have I need to have some sort of external force happen to me to make sure I don't get that I'm not doing that erg. Like, whether that is, you know, I step and like my quad cramps up, or I get hit by a bolt of lightning, or a car slightly hits me and just takes me out of commission, or the coach is so thankful. But you know, none of that stuff happened, got down there, erged, you know, broke a barrier, wasn't as bad as I thought it was, but you finish, you're like, oh wow, accomplished. And then the whole cycle starts again for the next week. That in and of itself, though, caused us to have a super successful spring season. You know, hard work pays off. We bonded a lot, went undefeated, went on to Henley and win the Temple Cup, which was amazing. But I felt like after that I needed some time, and I I rode I rode a little bit in the summer, but not too much. And then we were gearing up for the next year, and during that time of rowing, it was challenging me a lot. I I I didn't quite have a direction yet with where I wanted to go with school, and so I was reflecting over the summer of what I wanted from school because you have an amazing opportunity, right? You can study whatever you want. You know, people pay a lot of money, and they have they have a lot of potential there. And I felt like I was kind of washing it away in a sense. And so I was like, okay, both my parents are engineers. Do I want to become an engineer? Not necessarily, but I'm good at math, so hell, why not? I'll pursue that. That seems like it's a challenge and it'll be fun. And the grades I got freshman year did not coincide to me actually getting into engineering. So I knew something needed to change. And then I was just thinking about like two weeks before we had our first meeting. Okay, can I really go through all of that freshman year again? Like that same mindset, how hard it was. And for some weird reason, I just kept focusing on how hard it was. Like I lost the perspective of the result. Like the result was great, but I just remembered like how challenging and mentally challenging it was. And so I just I made the decision. I was like, okay, I'm not gonna row anymore. You know, it was really hard, but I made it. And I didn't want to even start and try and see if I could balance it because I didn't want to quit it halfway through. And I knew in my heart that it wasn't gonna be for me. So I made the decision before it even started. It was a good it was a good decision. It was hard. I was still living with people who were rowing at the time, and I focused all my energy into school, and when you're not rowing, you got a lot of time to study, and so my grades dramatically increased, and I learned a lot and I was able to establish good habits. I I remember I would just like hear stories of practice and what was going on and could relate to it. I was I was always curious and I was always asking a ton of questions. So like clearly I was still still into it, but was I all the way into it? I don't know. I remember I was I slept in the basement. My room was in the basement. I connected this is a college house through and through. My I had two doors, one that went into the hallway, the other one went into our garage. So, like, say you wanted to get into our garage from the house, you had to go through my bedroom. Um, no one ever did it. We they were able to pull the door open from the outside. But as you know, Matt, from college days, you had like two of my roommates would go and they would grab their Vespa 25cc, 20 miles an hour max scooters from the garage to go ride down to practice. And it'd be like five in the morning, and it would be so dark out and it'd be raining, and I could hear it because it we only separated by a door. I'd pull the blankets up real tight, and I'd be like, oh man, thank goodness I'm not out there. I can't even imagine going into rowing right now. Like, I'm gonna sleep in. This is gonna be so nice. And like that was my first response. That was the first time I heard it, you know. Same thing for the second, same thing for the third, and then and then I and then we got into like the winter quarter, and I realized like all I was doing was going to school and studying. Like I wasn't really bonding with anyone, like all my friends were rowers, and I felt like I was missing out on this whole experience. Like I was doing what was important to me at the time, and I knew I needed to do it, but I I was missing this like entity, I was missing being part of something bigger than yourself. And I didn't quite realize it at the time, but I knew something was off. And so a guy who ended up actually not rowing his second year to after freshman year, someone who was part of my class and was just studying for pharmacy school, we were like, okay, we're gonna work out together. I was like, all right, perfect, you know. I've never lifted weights before. This guy looks huge. I'm gonna go lift with this guy. And it was great, like three days a week, boom, going down there. The workouts you would do. Like the first day I did it, I wasn't able to extend my arms. Like the long the farthest they could go was 90 degrees. Like I was walking around just like wings out, you know. But it was like a competitive side where it's like, you know, just push yourself. It's something different, it's not cardio, it's weights, you know, just push yourself and just like it's gonna hurt, it's gonna suck, but someone's doing it with you, and it makes it so much easier. And so I saw gains that I never seen before. You know, I put on like 15 to 20 pounds, I felt great. Um, did that, another guy joined the group. It was awesome. We had a sense of camaraderie. It was it was like halfway through the winter quarter, though, that this guy who got me down there was like, oh, you know, like I I put myself in a good position with pharmacy school, like I'm really thinking about going back to the team. And my gut reaction was like, why the hell would you want to get on the erg again? Like, like we have the good life, brother. Why would you want to get back on there? And he was like, I don't know, man. Like, I I there's something about it. Like, I I just miss being down there, and like I wanna I wanna try it again. I was like, okay, well, you helped me kinda get out of this slump, so I'll help you. No, if you need to do ergs, I'll erg next to you. Kind of solidarity through the pain and suffering. And so he starts erging, and I don't nearly do as many ergs as he does. He starts doing like 54-minute pyramids and like three by twenty minutes and challenging stuff. I was like, there's no way. And there's no way I'm gonna be doing that. So I do a 10-minute piece with him. Same thing as my novice year in high school. Almost throw up and pass out. I go like 153, it's embarrassing. And I was like, we're in the IMA gym, and I'm about to pass out. But you know, he wanted to do it, so I was like, okay, I'll keep doing it with you. You know, we get to the middle of springtime, he's like, okay, yeah. So I I've been doing some research, and this Paris camp is like a good stepping stone to make sure that we can make the team next year. I was like, okay, man, so I guess we're staying up here in the summertime, and like I kind of have plans and I have a place all set up, so we'll do this Paris camp. You know, my roommate that I was gonna have is going back to Florida so for the summer, so you can live with me. I was like, okay, fantastic. So him and I lived together. We started doing this Paris camp, and I was really fortunate for him to promote all of these things because I didn't quite realize how excited I was for the energy down there. Granted, this isn't like regular practice, right? This is a throw-together group of guys. Like some of them are from Washington, some of them aren't, some of them are from like Oregon State or whatever, but it's cool. It's a it's a good group, and you're learning all these small boat skills, the pressure's not as high, you're not really erging. And I just I I liked it. And I was like, oh yeah, like this is kind of what I've been missing. And we we both we both did it, and you know, we both had a successful pairs camp. And by the end of it, I was like, okay, like I I could do this, I can get back to it. And I remember right then and there, it's like I fully miss the team. And so when I did decide to go back down, and it wasn't a big decision, but I was like, I'm doing it because I want to be there. I'm doing it to be around my friends who are pushing themselves, and I want to be a reason why they push themselves. Like, I'm leaning on them, they're leaning on me. I had no expectations of what I should go when I hit the herd, but I knew I knew that when we hit this struggle point, we're gonna kind of do it together. And and I also knew like the energy of the room was gonna be there. And so I remember, like, boom, first day of varsity practice, you know, trying out. Like it energy's high, right? First day of the year. Energy's really high. And usually a weekend energy plummets because you do some tests and it's like, oh man, I'm not as in shape as I thought. Like, I didn't work out enough over the summer. Everyone felt that, but I still had a smile on my face. Like, I was stoked to be there. I was like ecstatic. And I remember it was like, I think I did a 10K and I went like 155. Which is when you're going all out for a 10K on in like a college D1 school, and that's pushing for a national championship. 155 sucks. It is not good. But I remember I was just like, yeah, like I did it, you know, I did the erg, and I almost had this like whole new perspective on everything because I wanted to be there. And after that first week, like people didn't quite get where they wanted, you know. It was it's a it's a fast-paced environment. At Washington, like the first day of practice, like you boom, you're moving it and you're shaking it, and you're starting to select like seat race for boats and everything. And I just kept like I kept having this mentality where when I was walking towards the boathouse, it wasn't a dread anymore. It was a it was a pure excitement. Not only because I didn't really have any expectations for my performance, but it was like, yeah, I was down there with the team, with the guys, with the with with the girls too, and it was great. And with it, I was like, oh man, I'm back in it. And that was a turning point, that was like a massive turning point in my career. Because it it beforehand, it it felt like I was getting dragged down there, you know. Like it felt like there was an expectation to me to be down there, you know, as accountability towards each other, and and that's all fine and everything. And like if you're having really hard days, you need to use that to kind of push through those hard days of like not letting your teammates down. But if that's like your only motivation factor for why you're you're at this sport that has is amazing, as sad as it might sound, like you might need to reevaluate and take some time to gain perspective on why you're there. And that was what that year-off did for me. And then I keep telling people, like, the best decision I made in college was taking that year off. It was extremely challenging and hard, and like the process to get back to up to speed was challenging, but I I firmly believe I would not have been in the position that I wanted to be in at the end of that first year that I would have wanted to be in if I just kept rowing. And that was because I had this internal goal to be there. You know, perspective is everything. The way that you the way that you spin a message and the way that and the intent at which you do something speaks leaps and bounds above the actual result that you have because that means you're getting better. You know? When you're in an erg and things get hard, it's so easy to let yourself And give yourself out. But if you want to be there, you'll push through that and you'll be stronger for it. So like my biggest lesson is like get take time, you know? Like it's very unconventional. Usually as a coach, like that's the biggest fear, right? People taking time and then being out of shape. But it's like if you're a rower, you know yourself, you know, you know like where you are, not only with your body, but also your mentality. If you need to take time, take time. Take time in the right time places too. So if you if you're supposed to take time, take time. You know, like if it you got a week before the IRA, don't be like, I need to have a moment. Like you're all gung-ho over there. But um yeah, gain take time to gain some perspective on why you you do this sport, and you will be more successful because of it. And right when I had that mentality shift, I took that mentality shift to win three national championships in the varsity eight, go undefeated, you know, take GB to a super tight Henry Grand Challenge finals race. Um make it onto the national team, not really think about where I needed to be compared to everyone else, but just try to push myself, ended up making the boat for Rio. It's like your intent at which you do things outweighs talent every time. I'm 6'2, 195 pounds wet, you know? I'm not that big, not that heavy. But through that progression and through that like mentality, I I would be reflective and and know why I was down in a specific area or why I was in the position I wanted to be in, and then get better for it. So I wasn't a pity party. It was just like, okay, this is where I am, gotta get better at it.
SPEAKER_00So that's my cool man.
SPEAKER_01I hope that was helpful.
SPEAKER_00Who was the fellow that uh you were lifting with and uh doing like a couple errors with? Who was this guy? Who was your roommate?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, his name was uh Peter Allen.
SPEAKER_00It's William Peter Allen, right? Everybody's that's how I've always known him. Gotcha, that's a good story. And but was uh was it Bunkers who was the guy from Florida?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I didn't really want to throw names out there, but yeah, it was Bunkers. He uh he went home for Florida for the summertime, or maybe he was doing like a U-23 camp or something. Uh but he wasn't there and we had to get into our place. And so Peter was such a good guy. I was like, yo, dude, between us, you don't need to pay for rent, homie. You're just staying with me for free. I mean, that's the people you want to surround yourself with, right?
SPEAKER_00Good people, so if your closest friends could only describe you using three words, meaning three distinct adjectives, which words do you hope that they would use for you?
SPEAKER_01Three words. Yeah. I I actually reached out to a couple people and asked this. It's really hard to reflect on yourself in this in this sense, and I agree with what they kind of came back to me about. It's dedicated, passionate, and goofy. Anyone who's rode with me knows that I'm passionate. You know, sometimes I get out there and uh on the water Sam is different than off the water Sam. Um but then hopefully I bring some side of goofiness to it too when stakes aren't as high.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, man. Or when or when stakes are high. Sometimes when goofy is good when stakes are high. I don't know about you, but I appreciate it.
unknownYeah, exactly.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, just getting people to look like laugh and relax. And like I said, with mountain biking, being loose is extremely good. Like being loose and rowing allows people to kind of come together easier. It's better to stay loose, and nothing nothing brings a group better together than a laugh. And like they're always Were you there, Matt? Were you coaching at the time that Betham Allen was like the the comedic star? Like before any practice, he would tell a joke. Were you there at Washington?
SPEAKER_00Um I was there at I I spent a year there from 2011 to 2012. It might have been your junior year or senior year, and I I knew Betham, and I think I I do have a feeling for this because I do remember Mike asking me, and this I'm not gonna retell what joke I told. Um, but Mike asked me my first day. It was like my first practice first day, period, as like the intern there is like, so this is Matt. Matt, tell a joke. But that was from Betham's thing. I think that came from Betham being like the joke everyday thing. You had to start with that.
SPEAKER_01So your first year there was that year I was coming back from taking that year off. And I remember because I didn't I didn't know the scope, I didn't know the landscape of the team, I didn't know who was really there. I was a freshman, right, your first year, and so you don't know who's on the varsity squad really. You're just keeping your head down, trying to survive day to day. And I remember I saw you, Matt, and I think we've talked about this before, but you this is like the most power move I think I've ever seen from an individual. You pulled two stationary bikes together and you started doing dips on the on the handlebars, and I was like, this guy's an animal. Like, and I thought you were a rower. I was like, who is this guy? Yeah, I was like, this guy gets it. Like, he gets after it. I was gonna say it's a way to make a great first impression.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, I guess so. I remember Luke giving me craft for wearing my Cornell uni. Not out of any sense of like flying the flag. I just was like on one of the RP3s and it was just trying to get a workout in. And I didn't really have another uni, I was just like, all right, I'll throw this on. And I remember him being like, no, no, no, no, no, no, you can't wear that. Alright, flipping back to the questionnaire. Snap. What drives you and motivates you? What gets you pumped up every day?
SPEAKER_01Two two parts of this. What drives me is like seeing personal growth. This is high level, personal growth and like overcoming barriers, right? So that's that's like when I think about rowing as a whole. When I'm in the boat and there's another boat side by side, it's strictly racing. That's what pumps me up. Like it's a flip is or a switch is flipped and I'm I'm ready to go. So I I think that there are two sides of it. And the racing side is is definitely one of them. And just like going out as hard as I can and trying not to break before the other person can break, like just thinking about that right now pumps me up. So I like that side of it.
SPEAKER_00Nice, man. Love it. Um on the flip side of that, what's something that turns you off?
SPEAKER_01Uh negative attitude, and I think gaining the perspective of taking that year off just really highlighted it for me. Um, what I mean by that is rowing is a sport that sucks sometimes. And you know, you can go out for a practice and it could it could be terrible in every single way. But being able to brush it off and move on to the next one is something is a skill that I think you learn in it. The thing that really turns me off is when people are challenged by that and dwell on the negatives instead of just moving on. Like I I do not like that um personally.
SPEAKER_00Who is somebody that you admire in Rawling and why?
SPEAKER_01I mean, there are so many amazing people in this sport. I think a sport that you have to work so hard at and only race a handful of times, um really and with no fame or glory, and you're sharing it with potentially eight other people. I think the people who get drawn to this sport are amazing and selfless, and almost anyone in it I really respect. Um one person in uh in uh one specific person comes to my mind, David Banks, my first summer on the national team. I think it started off with me flipping a pair on the dock in front of like the men's and women's national team and the women's U23 team. So that's how I started this camp off. Um, but he was he was amazing. Like, so he was a guy who was around for the 2008 Olympics and then the 2012 Olympics, and he was working in the area and he would still work out. And it wasn't just like, hey, I'm gonna do a quick 20 minutes to get a sweat in. It was like this guy is working out. And he decided to come back to the team for 2014, and so he'd row with us from time to time, and just like a phenomenal human being, so compassionate, so nice. Everyone loves him who knows him, so passionate about what he's doing, so dedicated, no excuses ever. It's just like someone who I really looked up to and was a great like role model for my national team experience. Funny story: this guy tore his Achilles heel playing a community league basketball game, and he decided like he was like, All right, I still need to row, like I'm still training. He I think he did a 6k once, going like arms and body quarter slide. Yeah, yes, have you heard about this?
SPEAKER_00I watched him do it.
SPEAKER_01Oh my god. Dude, what did he go? I I was gonna say like 147.
SPEAKER_00Not bad for a guy who wasn't rowing beyond quarter slide. Not bad at all. I mean, geez.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So, you know, not only is he a great person, but the dude is a competitor and he just gets after it. Like, I heard that story. I was like, oh my god, anyone who would do a 6K arms and body and maybe quarter slide is a machine.
SPEAKER_00I gotta get him. Uh you know what? He's somebody I should get on the podcast, and that's the story I want to hear about. Is because I remember that, and like, you know, he was just figuring it out. I remember sitting there, you sit down there, you would do steady state, just like I know, he like could do body over and maybe a little bend of the knees, just enough to get a little momentum off of the glutes, but like not yeah, not not a lot, dude. Not not not real, you know, legs usage, just enough. And I also remember him getting huge from the hips up, because that's all he was doing. Was just pulling on the handle, which is really funny. Um Dude, I bet he'd have a rugged story about that. I gotta get him on here. He was a good guy. I really liked him a lot. What is your favorite boat class?
SPEAKER_01Easy, straightforward. Love that boat. Uh it's the most polar boat, I think, that they have, where if the row is going great, it is phenomenal, you know? But if it's not, it's like the worst boat you could be in. Because there's only four of you, there's no coxswain, and if it's not going well, you're like, well, we gotta fix something, and it's not getting better, and we're all just beating our heads against the wall. But if it is going well, like it glides so well, it's got so much speed to it, so much pop, and it's I think it's the definition of rowing, in my opinion, of just like the pure balance between power and art. I love it. I love that boat. I also love about the Street 4 is you can row it so many different ways, and we've seen so many successful crews row it in so many different ways. And yeah, as long as you got four people who are doing it together, it flies. And I think that is so cool. And and it's really easy if you have a good understanding of what you're trying to go for. It's really easy to decipher things in the straight four. A lot harder in the eight. There's so many moving parts to an eight. A straight four, you can kind of break it down a lot, and I like that aspect of it.
SPEAKER_00So what about your favorite racing distance? You got one?
SPEAKER_01I don't care about the distance. I just care if it's side by side. I now that I'm not rowing anymore, I can't push myself hard enough if it's single file or time trial. I don't know what it is. Maybe I'm a weenie, but I need to be side by side just to have someone to kind of gauge off of. My head races were not successful.
SPEAKER_00I thought you were pretty good in the pair. Didn't you have the pair didn't you have the record in the pair, or were you and another guy had a you you won the pear head, didn't you?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I won the pear head, but it wasn't. I I would I I would do well enough to make the varsity eight in the pear head, but I would win the pears matrix. So the pear head is single file 5k, single file 5k. The pears matrix was side by side 1250. I would win the pears matrix and I'd get like third or fourth in the pearhead.
SPEAKER_00Before a race, or before any big performance, do you have a way that you always like to prepare yourself and get dialed in, like a pre-race mantra?
SPEAKER_01In college, it was as simple as wearing my toe socks. I had these cool socks that had individual like areas for each toe to go in. And after I w uh my last race in 2014, on the way from like finishing and racing and winning the national championship to like putting the boat away, I lost them. I couldn't find them anymore. I don't know what happened, but I had them up like from my first races um my my second year back, so my first year on varsity, up until that point. So that was that was simple. Nothing really with mentality, which is unconventional, but I just love these toe socks and they just brought me such good luck. Um and then on the national team, it was honestly just the warm-up. Like I realized how important the warm-up was and how different it was for each person. Um, like what got someone warm differs from me to you. Um so I actually I really enjoyed the process of the warm-up. Funny thing about pre-race, though, is I I had this same thought, and I was talking to my wife, Kelsey, about this, and I mentioned it to her, and she knew exactly what I was talking about. It was like, and you do too, probably, Matt, the 10 to 15 minutes before the start of a race when you're passing the starting dock on the warm-up, and there's so much anxiety filled in that that like staging area, and not only because of like you're about to start this 2K, but for me, it was just like, oh my god, are we in a good position to make sure that we file in at the right order so that we can lock in and not get a penalty of being late? Or and I just remember I would always think to myself, just like, God, I wish I was at practice right now. I hate this feeling. But once you're locked in, you're locked in and you're good to go. But I had that through my entire rowing career from like juniors to the Olympics, like that same exact feeling, and I I was reflecting on it.
SPEAKER_00What about favorite race course, or maybe even a favorite regatta?
SPEAKER_01Uh, favorite race course is Redwood Shores. Love it, love the intimacy of it, love the first thousand meters, how you're side by side with these houseboots next to you. I love that you cross under this bridge and it's like a gateway to this like massive expanse where there's just you you go from this echo of coxswains to like nothing, and then you got that that last thousand meters. Like, I love that feeling. I think it is absolutely hilarious that you need to like hold water after you cross the finish line. And I love it that people catch crabs because they're so tired. It's just like so cool.
SPEAKER_00You know, very clearly, you know, you're on this podcast with me. Uh, you know, rowing still holds a pretty important place in your heart. So, you know, to this day, what is it that still hooks you on the sport and and and makes you still love it?
SPEAKER_01I would say just where it's allowed me to go in my life, I would be nowhere near where I am now without this sport. And just like how open it is and like the opportunities that are available to other people if they choose to take it. I mean, and no I don't really know many other sports, and this might not be true, but where hard work does be talent almost every single time. I think that that's so cool. And and I love that you know, if you're just naturally gifted, I can outwork you and beat you in the long run, which like I said, I don't know what other sports really has that. I found rowing, and I love that about rowing. Um and then the people. I think the people who stick with it, stay with it, even try it, maybe it's not for them for a reason or another, but you know, the ones that kind of make it their identity are great people. Um it's just an all-around great sport.
SPEAKER_00Come on. Well, final piece to close things out. If you could give one piece of advice to each of the following three people, what would you say to a rower, a coxswain, and to a coach?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so for the rower, I'd kind of go back to the story of just make sure you know why you're down there. I think that's very important. To a coxswain, I think three three pillars for when I was coaching coxswains. It would be safety, wins and wares, and then motivation. You know, you gotta be safe first, you gotta make sure you don't run it into anything. The wins and wares are like either running a practice, making calls during a race, making sure that the teams warmed up well or like on time to the regatta, and then motivation. Like if you knock the first two out, you can't you can really not say anything that's motivational during a race core race, and you'll be a great coxswain. I mean, if you have so if you have a one quip that's phenomenal, but you knock the two out that's the first two, you're you're a great coxswain. Oh so that's my advice. To a coach, I would say I would say there's no right way to do it. Just make sure that what you do holistically makes sense. And so what I mean by that is if you are trying to go for a power rhythm, make sure everything feeds into that mindset. So the training plan, the mindset, the culture of the team who you recruit if you're a college team, who who you support is there for that rhythm.