The Rowing Podcast
The Rowing Podcast
Megan Cooke Carcagno - "Never Give Up"
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https://goduke.com/sports/rowing/roster/coaches/megan-cooke-carcagno/3838
Hey guys, this is Matt with the Rowing Podcast. Do you remember the first time you got into a rowing show? Well, rowing has been a part of my life for a very long time. For many kids, it's never even an option. That's why the George Pocock Rowing Foundation was started. Centered in Seattle, where the legendary boat builder started his work, the GPRF reaches kids across the country to help them find, start, and stay rowing. The people at the Foundation believe that rowing changes lives on and off the water. They've been leading innovative programs since 1984, working to get more kids to unlock the amazing opportunities that rowing provides, promoting more racial, cultural, gender, economic, and lifestyle diversity in boathouses throughout the United States. Join me in learning more and giving back at www.pocockfoundation.org. She was a gold medalist in the women's pair at the 2006 World Cup and a gold medalist in the Women's Day at the 2006 World Rowing Championships, where the U.S. set a world best time of 555.5. She was also a 2006 champion at the Henley Royal Regatta and the head of the Charles. Prior to the national team, she rode for the Golden Bears at Cal Berkeley, where she earned first team All-American honors twice, along with her first team All-Region and first team All-Pack accolades. She was co-captain both her junior and senior years. She is currently the head coach of Duke University Women's Rowing. I'm excited to have as my guest today, Megan Cook Carcagno. Cook, what's going on? It's great to have you on the podcast.
SPEAKER_01Hey, thanks so much for having me.
SPEAKER_00Hey, I hear you and Simon have some really exciting news lately, as of the past two months.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, we added our uh third son to the family, uh, little Runny. He's two months and doing really well, keeping us busy.
SPEAKER_00How's the sleep schedule going with uh with rowing?
SPEAKER_01I know that's usually Yeah, it's late nights and early mornings, uh, which is a great combination. But no, so far so good. He's he's a pretty good baby, and um, we'll get through it.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha. Um, I hear you you guys also have some pretty creative names for your other two sons who uh are a little bit older than uh than Remy. What uh what are your other two sons' names?
SPEAKER_01Well, thanks for asking. Um my oldest, who just turned 10, his name's Grady um with a G. And then my middle son is Finn, and then uh Remy, we actually got from um I guess it's French Latin for oarsmen. So we thought that would be fitting, hoping, hoping that one of our kids um picks up rowing.
SPEAKER_00My my niece's um name is Finley, and yeah, my brother's kind of big into Irish names. So that uh that's kind of cool. It's good to hear another one.
SPEAKER_01I love that. My husband and I actually um met at the Finn Kasperson boathouse, so we thought that might be fitting.
SPEAKER_00Oh, very cool. Oh, there you go. That's awesome. See, that's perfect. Let's start pretty early on. So, where's your hometown? Where did you grow up?
SPEAKER_01I grew up in a little town called Los Gatos. Um, it's about an hour south of San Francisco, um, nestled in the Santa Cruz Mountains, and I started rowing on Lexington Reservoir, which is um right there in the town.
SPEAKER_00Got it. So, mountains, did that mean you were doing some hiking, trail running, biking when you were growing up?
SPEAKER_01Uh, it's absolutely gorgeous. Um, my parents aren't really into hiking or mountain biking, oddly enough. Um, my dad's a big surfer, actually, but um yeah, I just love being out in nature. I loved walking the trails behind our house, running through the woods. Um, I just I really enjoyed growing up there.
SPEAKER_00Gotcha. Well, you mentioned your family. Can you tell tell us a bit about uh your mom and dad, any brothers or sisters you got?
SPEAKER_01My uh mom works in healthcare, and my dad has been um you know a teacher and a coach his whole life. So he actually coached the um high school basketball team for a while. Um, so I never played basketball. Uh and then my brother is super into sports. He's a couple years younger than me. And he's one of those kids that just played, you know, baseball, basketball, uh every sport, you know, that was going on, he was playing it. So it was funny. Rowing kind of became my thing.
SPEAKER_00How did you get involved in the sport? Where was the starting point?
SPEAKER_01I was doing track my freshman year of high school, and um a couple of friends said, Hey, you're tall, you should row. And I thought, you know, you know, that that sports for losers, you know, everyone's running or or uh, you know, playing a ball sport. But um, you know, just one of my friends dragged me out there and I instantly fell in love with it. I mean, it was just so wonderful to be out in the middle of a lake, surrounded by the mountains with good people working hard. I just I it just made me come alive.
SPEAKER_00Why don't we start things off? What's the first story that you'd like to share with us?
SPEAKER_01So I think my whole life I've always viewed myself or felt like I was viewed as kind of an underdog. Um, like I said, I grew up in a small little town. We had a rowing team, um, just super small, really off the map, especially, you know, growing up can and looking at those programs like Marin and Mount Baker and Oakland Strokes. I mean, these were huge, massive programs with tons of juniors and really good results. And here I was at Los Gatos. I mean, yeah, my junior year, um, which is kind of where I really picked up some steam. Um, there were five of us on the team. So we had a, we literally had a four, um, the smallest one being the Coxswain, and then the four of us were the rowers. And um, you know, we we ended up taking that boat all the way to youth nationals and meddling um from for our no-name program. So that was pretty exciting. But I mean, um, I was recruited to Cal by default. No one else would recruit me. I remember actually calling um Jan Harville at Washington, and I actually I might have spoken with Eleanor. I don't know if I got to Jan on the phone, but she's a actually a wonderful person. But um, you know, I was 5'9, 150 pounds, you know, pulled 720 something, and and they basically hung up in the politest way possible. Um, so you know, went to Cal, um had, you know, a really tremendous time there. Um, and a few of my teammates were actually doing the whole national team thing, like under 23s and senior national team. And, you know, I was in pairs with these guys and ergs and training camps and everything that you do on a yearly schedule. And I kept thinking, well, if if these girls can do it, maybe I could try it. Um, you know, I'd never really been exposed to, you know, elite level sport in my life. Um, like I said, my dad was a basketball coach, and um, you know, my mom really had nothing to do with sports, and my my brother surfed. So I was never really exposed to like this elite level of athletics. So I, you know, work really hard, and my junior year of college, I get an invite to um an under 23 camp. And so I'm so excited and I just can't wait. And I'm gonna, you know, go prove the world that I can do anything. And I hop in my car and I I drive from California to to Cornell. And it's at Cornell and I drive all night and I've got three three days, yeah. Me alone as a you know, 17-year-old, 16-year-old, whatever I was, in the car, and I get there, and I had driven all night, and and you know, the camps, you know, the girls are rolling in, and all I see is these just tremendously tall and strong and like just like perfect God's gift to rower types, you know. And I'm like, oh gosh, like what have I done? And um, you know, it's funny this camp is being held. Um, they they, you know, I they're they're housing us all in the um like erg room, like that's where we sleep. Yeah. So they have these like bunk beds, and um, you know, you you put your bunk bed together and you they're like these little pegs, you put the top bunk on, and it's like, oh my gosh. And um, you know, I'm on this, I'm in this bunk, I forget who's above me, and and um I just keep looking around and I get getting nervous and kind of freaked out, and I just I found a post-it note and I just wrote on it, never give up. And I put that on the uh ceiling of my bunk bed and I stared at that thing every day and every night, and it really just became my mantra. Um, and so I'm doing this camp, and you know, I think it was like 45 or 50 women were invited, and 45, you know, slowly turned into 20, and then that 20 turned into 10, and then that 10 turned into eight, and then six, and then four. And this is back in the day when the regatta was called Nations Cup. Um and they only sent a women straightforward to the event. So the men had like you know, five, six events, and the women had one.
SPEAKER_03Oh, wow.
SPEAKER_01And so you had to be one of the top two starboards or ports on your side to go. And so I made the boat. I couldn't believe it. First of all, I was so excited, and you get that first USA unisuit and the flag and everything, and you're flying overseas and all that good stuff. Um, but it, you know, it just really sparked something inside of me that I didn't need to be taller than anyone else or bigger, have this massive rig score. I needed to be patient and I needed to not give up. And I think that that experience really just reshaped my entire um approach to sport and and to the rowing experience.
SPEAKER_00You know, I laugh when you talk about the uh, not to dwell on a tiny detail, but I laugh when you talk about the putting together the bunk beds. So when I wrote it, Cornell, it would that was the same thing for IRA in quotations camp when you know the season radio regular season would end and then suddenly everybody got kicked out of the dorms. So you had to stay somewhere. And so the guys that didn't have a place to stay would usually stay at the boathouse, probably on those exact same bunks that you were.
SPEAKER_03Oh, I'm sure.
SPEAKER_00So um well, I love that story. And so, you know, with the who did you end up rowing with and uh and how was how did the regatta go?
SPEAKER_01Um, I ended up rowing with Portia McGee, who's still one of my dearest friends, um, Mariah Raymond, um, and then another friend Jen. Um, and we meddled actually. Um, I think we got a silver medal. Um, so that was really fantastic. And that we were racing in Austria, which was beautiful, um, such a fun race course. Um, but the whole experience was surreal. I just I was totally hooked. I loved it.
SPEAKER_00And so how did that experience change? So I believe if you so if I got this correctly, that was your junior year in college. And so how did that change your outlook for the rest of your rowing career? I mean, um, again, you kind of had that realization early on of, wait a minute, I'm rowing with the people who are going to national team camps. Why aren't I why aren't I going into a national team camp? Did that experience open up new doors, do you think? I mean, it for you personally, not necessarily from the coach's perspective, but for you kind of emotionally, like, wait a minute, I think there's something more here and and I want to keep going.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I would say it did, but I would say none, none of my entry into the US team um was easy. Like, or, or um, you know, they didn't, you know, roll out any red carpets or any carpets at all. I mean, when I left college, um, you know, I I was gonna go to the national team. That's what I was gonna do. That's what I'd seen teammates do. I wanted to, I had put this in my head that I wanted to be an Olympian. Um, and I wanted to see how fast I could go. So, you know, I did what any other athlete would do. I called up, you know, Tom and said, Hey, can I, can I, can I join you? And he said, No, you're too slow, you know, in his kindest way possible. Um so I spent a year at Cal staying around, you know, and coaching a little bit and helping out and just training by myself. I mean, running the streets of Marin up the hills in San Francisco, you know, coaching three different jobs just to make enough money to pay rent. Um I saved up enough to buy a single. I'm out there on the estuary by myself, having no clue what I'm doing. In fact, one time I rode out so far that I um the tide went down and I got stuck somewhere in the bay. Um, but you know, eventually I started pulling scores and 6Ks and things like that that were fast enough to say, well, maybe you could come out and try and join us for a camp at Chula Vista. And that was like this was like this was like the spring after, you know, I'd graduated. So I'm like, oh my God, this is great. Here we go. And so I get in my car and I drive down to San Diego, and that's like an eight, nine-hour drive. And um, I get to the camp, and he's like, Okay, well, you can show up and you can row in the morning and you can row in the afternoon, and then that's it. So I didn't realize it at the time, but um, there was nowhere for me to stay. Like, I, you know, like so I slept in my car um and I rode as often as I could, and just to be with the girls and to be with the team and to see if I could get a shot. And it was funny because the girls that were staying there, you know, some of I had met through the camp a year before, but they felt so bad they would like bring me sandwiches from the dining hall while I was sleeping in my car. Um, but I would do anything to get a shot to go.
SPEAKER_03That's awesome.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, the spring progressed in the summer, and eventually I moved out to the East Coast. And through my old teammates at Cal, I had set up housing to stay when I got to Princeton. And um, while I was driving the 3,000 miles, you know, three days, you know, you just kind of get through, you don't want to waste your training or anything like that. You're driving 18 hours a day, totally unsafe. But um, you get out there and I had found out while I was driving, they had given away my housing to a higher priority athlete.
SPEAKER_03Oh, geez.
SPEAKER_01So it, you know, again, it was just like hardship after hardship, but like none of it mattered. None of it mattered. If anything, it fueled me more because it was just like no one's gonna help me out here. Like I've got to do this 100% on my own.
SPEAKER_00Well, I love it. And I love the sticky note as well. Do you do you still keep a sticky note on your desk or do you still have that mantra kind of following you around even to this day?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. It's actually on my door. So as I walk out of the office, I can see it, you know, as I head home to the home life. But yeah, I it just rings true. Like, never give up. So after 2008, um, I started coaching, which is something I knew I always wanted to do. Um, I really um watched my dad do it, and I really loved the effect that he had on people and and um how much you know joy it brought him. So I knew I wanted to get into coaching, and I I uh was lucky enough to get a job over at Wisconsin, which is a great program. It's a novice coach, the freshman coach. You know, we'd get 200 girls walking through the door that first week of school, and you know, we get them all, you know, fired up, but we didn't have a ton of recruits. It was just wasn't that style program, it was all about the walk-on athlete there. And so, you know, I I went from Olympic trials to teaching a novice how to put their oar in the oar lock within a month. Uh so it was quite the transition. I remember sitting in the middle of like beautiful Lake Mendota, sitting there thinking, like, what happened? Here I was, and I quickly fell in love with it. And um, you know, we the walk-ons are picking up steam and they're learning how to square and feather and get their blades off and go faster. And you know, they're doing the these walk-ons are doing all the workouts I was doing the previous year, you know, trading for the 2008 Olympics. So it was pretty cool watching them tackle this thing. But um, yeah, I'll never forget my my first kind of coaching moment that really like hooked me. I had this great group. I think it was like my second or third year there as a coach, and just just one of those classes that comes through and you just this so fill full of spirit and uh just ready to go, you know. And so um they I took them to our season ended at Big Tens um and they had done well, they had swept both events, and so um I asked, you know, Bibi, hey, can I take these guys to South Central's, which used to be this regatta that was kind of like a secondary after after the the conference championship, and she said, Oh, sure, you know, usually we take one eight, but if you feel like you've got you know 16 girls, go ahead and take both eights. And I said, Great, awesome. So took them to this event, and um most of the other teams that we're racing against don't have novices there. I mean, it's everyone else's kind of like 3v or 4s kind of event. Yeah, and um, so I take these walk-ons, and it's like the first time they've ever been out of their conference racing, and they're big eyes, and they see all these, you know, you know, teams, Ivy League teams, ACC teams, SEC teams, and um I have to put them in the same event, obviously, because there's no even secondary event, like a 2N or two, you know, a second novice event. So I put them in the same event, and um, you know, one of them, of course, my lower boat gets sent to the petites, and then my all my um my first event, my first boat gets sent to the the finals. And you know, the day of the finals comes and I'm on my bike. This is in Tennessee, you know, Oak Ridge, you can ride along the course, which is great. And um following my the petite final down and my my my two end, you know, stroked by this wonderful girl, Katie Haynes. Uh she's flying that they're flying down the course, but they just had a bad start, you know, and they just kind of fell off the pace, and they're about a length or so behind the field. And I, you know, I followed for 1500 meters, but you know, then I'm like, ugh, that's too bad, they're not gonna make it. So I spin my bike around, and you gotta go as fast as you can up to the starting line again because now the 1B is about to come down. So this is my one end in this event, and um I want to watch this whole race. I get back up to the start, and the race goes off, and it's it ends up being um like a Virginia, probably their you know, third eight kind of boat, and my novices, and they're racing, and it's one of those events where it's just those two the only boats that exist, and they're they're going back and forth, the seesaw the entire race. Yeah, you know, two feet up, two feet down, two feet up, two feet down, and I'm and I'm pedaling as hard as I can, and they get to the 1500, they get to the 1750, and it's just back, forth, back, forth. And you know, when you get to Oak Ridge and you got to go wide around the last 300 meters, and so I'm I'm I'm in the Tour of France at this point, you know, I'm Lance, like going as far as hard as I can around the parking lot, and I get to the finish and I throw off my bike and I sprint down the hill and my one end win wins by inches, maybe less than a seat. They won. And I'm I'm in complete joy. Like I can't believe it. My you know, my volunteer assistant coach, you know, fancy title, but my volunteer friend who's helps coach the two end, she looks at me and we're hugging and we're just tears, you're so excited for these kids. And she looks at me and she says, By the way, the two N won. And I'm thinking, what? Like Katie Haynes, you know, never gave up and stroke that boat all the way back. And the two N wins the petites, the the one wins the final. And, you know, here comes my sport administrator, who I won't name, but walks over and says, Hey coach, you know, next time be a little safer on that bike. So such an administrator thing to say at that moment. But it was just, you know, one of those perfect moments in coaching where you you wish you could just swim out on the lake to just hug them. You're just so excited, you feel every emotion. And, you know, it's really funny to this day. I've been invited to all of their weddings and we're still good friends with all those women in that boat. And um, they're all having kids now, which is like crazy weird. But I it just it it hooked me. I just I always want to keep searching for that feeling of just total connectedness with your athletes and their joy is your joy.
SPEAKER_00That's awesome. That's awesome. Um, did you ever get to coach any of those athletes again, either, you know, a national team or anything like that, or did you get more connection points after that year?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, so actually their, I think it was their, oh god, I feel so old. Their senior year, I think, is when I transitioned to being the first assistant at Wisconsin. So then I got to coach them a little bit more again. So um it wasn't quite the same because you know, it's like the band wasn't all the way back together. You know, there was something special about that group as a freshman class that just um I think really did a lot for the program too, you know, that just belief and and sense of confidence. Um, I think it it really, really helped them. So it was cool. You know, I kind of always watched Duke as I was an assistant, um, and just kept thinking like, wow, it's such an incredible athletic department and just so well known for so many sports and not just basketball. Everyone knows about Duke basketball, but you know, you watch their lacrosse and their soccer and their field hockey. I mean, they they've got champions um in a lot of different sports. And so I just kept thinking this is you know going to be a place that could you could really be successful. Um, I was lucky enough to interview when the position came open and immediately just saw a place where you could, you know, do a lot. Um fortunate enough to be hired for the job, and I was just so excited and and you know, got in there and hired some assistant coaches. Um, and you know, we just we went to work, you know, and it it really needed a cultural overhaul. Um, but uh you could see a lot of the women that were there were very hungry for success and very, very dedicated to the idea of being good. And a lot of them that were there just did not sign up for that. They did not sign up for the two a days and the the the work, you know, that it took to be successful. Um so you know what it was a team of 50 was went to 40. Here's the numbers again, you know, down to 30 and and it kept getting smaller and smaller. And my administrator, who's you know, of course, like, you're okay now there? Is everything going okay? And I'm thinking like, oh dear God. Um but yeah, no, this is normal and and we're going through a little bit of a transition right here and right now. But uh we get all the way to the end of the year and the ACC championship you need 37 athletes to race. And um we have 37. So you know everyone know their job, you know, there's no backup, no spares kind of situation. And um but very much still going through that transition period. And I and I had a couple good boats in there and I was really excited to go to ACC's.
SPEAKER_03What?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. This is my first year as a head coach about to enter my first conference championship with 37 out of 37 rowers. And one of them says I want to go to the beach. So yeah, talk about hardship right so you know again looking at my mantra I was trying to grit my teeth and say never give up. So um we actually um said I, you know, what are you gonna do? And I, you know, I we went to the regatta and we had to forfeit an event. Um so we we didn't race a second four at my first championship there. And I felt so bad for those kids. Um but we didn't have that fourth person and so we couldn't do it. And um we actually ended up getting second overall um every other boat you know finished in the medals and high enough for us to earn second as a team despite not earning any points in that category. And our top three boats did so well that we got the program's first bid to NCAAs. Oh wow first year nice yeah and so it really I mean it was like my mantra coming true yet again of like you know we could have folded so easy we had every excuse in the book to just be like well we'll get them next year guys and you know I just the team rallied like they rallied and we got it done and um they got the bid and it was just life changing for not only for them but for the program you know for the legacy for the younger athletes um so yeah.
SPEAKER_00What were uh what were the years following that one like I mean I imagine that was a pretty like you said cultural shift there's a there's probably a lot of um defining moments along the way with you know the core team emerging as the the part of the team that wasn't really going to be fitting with the new culture starts to kind of fade away. What were the what were the successive years like following that uh you know that first awesome year you know what were some of the other big not wins necessarily on the race course but wins in the classroom on the URG um on in training what were those years like you know they had highs and lows I think um I think any program kind of going through that transition um you know there's a lot of milestones that we we met um in terms of just the team growing getting more experience getting faster getting more comfortable with success but then there's also a lot of hardships I mean I think you know a lot of the athletes that were there that earned that first bid um you know you can rally for a year and and get really excited and you've got a new coach and you've got you know assistance and and everything feels shiny and new but man the reality kind of hits that second year like being good is is one thing but staying good is really hard.
SPEAKER_01And so you know the next couple of years I mean they were real challenged the program and um in different ways. And I think it was almost like we were getting better and faster but also not seeing the same type of results at the same time if that makes sense um just because the bar kind of got raised. Yeah it was it's unique uh challenges in its own way but I'm I'm I'm really proud of the team we have right now I think that they've they've gone through a lot just interesting if you were compare this team to that first team this team is just so much faster so much better um but they're they're they're just more comfortable with that high bar.
SPEAKER_00You know I've never really spent any time at Duke or on the waterway there um not to not to give a shameless plug to the to the program but I kind of want to hear a little bit about it.
SPEAKER_01What's the what's the rowing like where do you guys row and uh what's the vibe like there yeah I mean it's um we row on a um little lake about 20 minutes north of campus called Lake Mickey and um it is one of the most beautiful places I've ever been on in my life. I mean it's just nothing built up on it. So you you spend your entire time um out in nature um it's about 5,000 meters long from end to end. It's got some turns in it um fresh water never freezes um and the best part about it I think is just we are the only ones there. There's no other teams there. There's uh club men's program that probably practice you know three or four times a year. But it's it's ours. It's our home court and um it's really nice not having to look in front of you or behind you with another team coming up or or be distracted in any way. It is 100% our course. I mean every single day I go out there I'm taking a million pictures and getting all the shots I mean it's just beautiful um you really feel like you're in nature and it reminds me so much of where I first started rowing out in Lexington where you're just you're a part of your surroundings um there's nothing to distract you and there's just these quiet moments that you have that I would I wouldn't trade it for anything.
SPEAKER_00Yeah it's wonderful if your closest friends can only describe you using three words meaning three distinct adjectives which words do you hope that they would use for you?
SPEAKER_01Oh that's such a good question I would say driven supportive and passionate. Who is somebody that you admire in rowing and why any year you were to ask me that my answer would change just based off what I'm working on. But right now I feel um my my rowing heroes are Steve Gladstone and Tom Terhar. As a coach, you know I just look to those two guys as people that are so effective in their job and um you know are very, very different and have very different styles and obviously a tremendous amount of success um but just very much who they are all the time. And I I just I really appreciate how they communicate and how they just bring people into their fold. I think that's really neat.
SPEAKER_00Is there something in particular that you learned from each of them have you had exposure to you know working with Steve and obviously you had time working with Tom you know maybe what's one piece from each each of them that um you learned and maybe something that you may have even applied to your own coaching?
SPEAKER_01I don't know. I don't think Steve would remember me but um you know I was at Cal when he was there and so I got to see him firsthand um every day out on the estuary um especially when I was kind of training afterwards on my own and and the way he would just hold audience with his his men um you know before and after practice I mean they idolized him he was their God and he was just so tremendous and powerful um with his words with his mannerisms um just the way he brought that group to life I thought it was pretty cool you know and then also I would say you know spending four years at Cal, I mean we consistently compared ourselves to two groups all the time, which in I think in the latter run made us really good but um you know we constantly compared ourselves to the Washington women and the Cal men and both of those teams were setting the bar at that time and so um it really helped us you know gain a lot of speed over our four years. Tom is I mean if you were to ask me if when I was his athlete um I think I would have had a very different thing to say. But the more I've coached the more I've just come to really really appreciate his his quiet style. You know of course the stakes are extremely high and so I think you can get a lot away with a lot more you know saying less when it's between you and the Olympics. But um he's just he's amazing. I mean he's he knows physiology he knows training um he knows how to get the most out of a team um and when he believes in you there is nothing you can't do. He is a mind trip, you know it's a polite way of saying that but like gosh he really he really brings out the most in his athletes and um not because you know women do it for him but they do it for themselves and each other. I mean he really knows how to just drive um you to any limit you know um I remember once I was meeting with a sports psychologist or something like that. But this is before like the sport psychology was in vogue or like mental health like we didn't talk about that you know like this is like okay let's go see this guy this will be fun. I think this guy was like interning at Chula Vista for like a you know to get some credits or something.
SPEAKER_02And um I was sitting down with him and I'm like it's just so hard like I don't know you know and he's like well why don't you quit like I can't quit are you kidding me like I can be an Olympic I can be a national team I can be you know all these things that you know he's just like well it's so tough.
SPEAKER_01Why don't you just quit and I'm like I mean it's so tough because that's what makes us good you know that's that grit that just lends itself to our success. And um yeah I don't know how purposeful he is in in making us grittier but man he he really really knows how to push his athletes.
SPEAKER_00I I spent a year at Princeton as an intern coach which is very funny to hear you talk about your trip to the national team where you kind of had to work multiple jobs and kind of make it work. That the it's like totally echoing my intern experience for at Princeton and UW where like I was making no money and had to eat soup and stuff. But anyway the one one of the wonderful things that I got out of my time at Princeton was I basically rode the launch with Tom andor uh Lorel every morning that I possibly could. Like so I'd finished Lakers practice and I'd jump literally jump out of my launch and into theirs and be like, all right, I'm here and ready to watch and somehow I finagled getting into the launch I think because Tom and I went to the same high school. And so he was like yeah sure no problem. I I get it. Like I was a gas boy at one point too. So if you want to fill my gas tank you can stick around and watch practice. You just can't be here for selection days. And I was like fine. And um I just felt like he was very like he said a few words but the words he did say were very high impact and they were very direct. And you know I think they just maybe weighed that much more heavily because there was no white noise. So you know at least from what I saw when he was working with the athletes if he if he said you know I need this he was just very it was just very straightforward communication and there was no there's no ambiguity to it whatsoever.
SPEAKER_01Oh totally I mean yeah and and the the the stakes he held you know like I mean it's the biggest stage in the world but I mean I will say um when he believes in you there's nothing you can't do and when he doesn't there's nothing you can do right. And so it's just such it's such such a heavy relationship you know what I mean? And you have Laurel and she's kind of like a good assistant you know and kind of like tells you on the side hey try more of this or that you know things that Tom won't won't do. But um yeah I mean all you want to do is impress this man. I remember this one time this is like stupid stories but like so I'm five nine you know I'm like a normal size person like you know not a rower type you would never walk be like oh there's a rower you know kind of thing I would he would stand after practice and you know this is the first year especially in the eight and in 2006 and you know he'd ask us what did you think or what about this and you know that like post row chat and like I would make sure when I did that chat I would never stand next to Karin Davies like I would never stand next to Susan and I would make sure I never stood next to L Logan or any of those guys like I would go stand next to Mary purposefully because I'd never and I'd cross my arms and be as big as I could like I would buy like the biggest kind of shoes I could buy and only stand next to Mary because I didn't want him to ever look at me as weak or small.
SPEAKER_03Sure.
SPEAKER_01You know and so like I just constantly would make sure like okay don't stand next to the big kids like just stand next to the little cocks and the hundred pound coxswain you look great.
SPEAKER_00Just a funny story to share with you but I feel like so I was it was I would I'd been in the launch a couple months to the point where he and I would would chat back and forth when he had a free moment and we'd joke around about stuff and we got talking about the weightlifting program at Cornell for the lightweight guys. And at that time we had a really good weightlifting coach and that was kind of a key part of our training was the lightweight guys were almost stronger than the heavyweights which sounds crazy but like we just did very focused training where you only had to do like three reps at a time and it was only there were no eccentric motions. So the guys got really really strong and so I I was I was putting up really good numbers but that's just kind of what we did. It was a big deal like you had to be super strong. That was the mode. It's like you're gonna it's like it's actually very cycling esque. It's like as light as you can be and as many freaking watts as you can put out on the machine was like Todd's approach. I'm like, okay. So but the funny thing was I told him that and that same day there had been a pretty bad rainstorm and he and I were picking up logs and junk from the from uh the water just so that the pears wouldn't run into them. It was a really quiet day. And there was a big log at one point and I was like hey you know I'll help you out and that was kind of my price of admission. And so I crawl forward on the launch and I got a rope and stuff and I'm I'm pulling up a log and the log's basically like starting to sink the launch. It's a really big one and I'm like pulling as hard as I can and I just hear Tom behind me go, can't you power clean 240 pounds?
SPEAKER_01And I was I looked like look behind me I was like you like I know like there's the smallest taste of what it must be like to be one of his athletes be like oh boy yeah I mean like he's just got this amazing way of like saying the smallest thing like especially under his breath you know like he'll he'll just say like one little thing and you know one time I was on the bike in uh you know Princeton on the back row you're on the bike for whatever reason he came over to me and was saying like you know you might be in the eight you might not he's he was saying something like uh you know I'm just I really don't want Mary to have to like you know have to use her rudder a lot if you end up being in bowel seat of this boat and I said to him well you know if if if she does she just has to let me know and I'll back off and the look on his face was like no that's not what I meant at Weakling you know in his as kindest way possible.
SPEAKER_02It's just like you know just let me know I'll back off if that's the case.
SPEAKER_00He's like absolutely not I think you had the best response I probably would have said that to be like yeah well if it's too much power coach no you know problem.
SPEAKER_01Yeah no problem I can I can short up a little bit if that helps out. Well what's your favorite race course and your favorite regatta oh man I know it's been said before but Lucerne I mean I I always say to my family and my friends I'm like if something happens to me please like cremate me and and bury my ashes in Lucerne and I hope you go for the chocolate and the yogurt but um there's just something so special about that race course. I remember racing there and we won the pair one year and it was just the most exhilarating feeling but I I love that place.
SPEAKER_00It's beautiful yeah yeah I love that too that was the I um again probably one Yaz that was Yaz's favorite. Oh really oh the uh yeah yeah I've had well I've had a ton of people tell me that Lucerne is a honestly it's like comes up I'd I'd easily give it 60% plus anybody who's raced there is like oh Lucerne totally like no question. No question.
SPEAKER_01It's the whole experience though it's like you're in Switzerland you go to the grocery store you know like everything about the whole thing. And then not to mention if you're racing at Lucerne you've probably done a few things right in your Rowan career. You know if you're racing or coaching there.
SPEAKER_00Yeah it's I mean have you been have do you have you been I finagled my way um into a volunteer coaching helping position with Luke McGee with his first summer that he was um coaching the national team where I basically just painted oars or what like and honestly anything I could do to justify my existence in a launch and just help um watch. But I got to go to Lucern at one point um and yeah the the course I mean it's like surrounded by by hills these beautiful green hillsides where like literally cows are you know wandering around eating and the course is way at the bottom and it's flat and it's perfectly I mean it's like it's like it's just rarefied air. It doesn't exist anywhere else in the world I don't think to that degree and you're like wow yeah this is like where the Olympics should be every year. We should just have it here. Like there's it doesn't matter what's the Nats and Lucerne.
SPEAKER_01But I think I think what makes it so special is not only is it like that final race of the year right before worlds, you know and so kind of like everyone's at good speeds and and all that, but like it's so quiet. Like that's what makes it good. Like I wouldn't want the Olympic like I wouldn't want the commentators and the loudness and the crowds and everything like what makes it so great is like you're sitting at the starting line and there's like that swimming pool area and you can kind of hear kids like laughing and playing and then you tune in on the other side of your head and it's like cows grazing with like you know some model yodeling on the hill but like there's no there's no chaos like it's just rowing in its essence and it's just on that beautiful turquoise water. Um I I yeah it's like I want to protect it you know like I'm like oh don't don't don't ruin the cern you know it's so perfect. Um yeah I've had some fun races there which it kind of adds to it and what is your favorite rowing drill and why oh that's a good question. Uh gosh it probably changes every year depending on the crew I'm working with but I guess my my ultimate favorite standby okay let's just go do this one um feed out paradigm. I mean I think you can fix a lot of things feed out and then the paradigm to the the acceleration work with that I think really helps people figure out um when to push and when to pull. What is the most challenging workout that you've ever done uh I think it's just so relative you know to like what you're going through. I mean I was this this morning on the treadmill coming back after having a baby I mean I think it's just it's where you are mentally and physically you know there isn't like this one workout because you could dumb that down or or cheat it or or go light on it. I mean I think it just really is where your head is where your body is and and how hard you're willing to push one to the other. So there's no prescription for hardness it's only heart and soul makes it all hard.
SPEAKER_00Yeah no actually you know that's actually probably one of the one of the better answers I think I've ever received because it's it's pretty it's pretty honest and pretty true. I remember you know there's um this is like a Todd Kennett story um but I'll make it really quick just to kind of support what you're saying here. We had this one workout and when I think back to the time of it I'm like it's not really that hard uh or you know in terms of that much time like the literally the time of the pieces, how long they were. But we were doing one that was like um God, what was I think it was like five minutes, three minutes, one minute, something to that effect. And you were supposed to go a certain kind of pace for each one like your five minute was supposed to be like your three by ten minute pace plus like a little like harder than that, but kind of you're around that zone and then the three uh three minute was supposed to be like literally a 2K pace. And then one minute was supposed to be like completely ballistic like I can't do it anymore. And I think we did like two of them. We were supposed to do a third and Todd was like all right I only want one more three minute piece out of you and I want you to do it as hard as you possibly can. And I remember that it's so interesting that that one workout sticks out to me because there's tons more. But that three minutes was like steering. I remember being like I don't know how the hell I'm gonna make it through this three minutes and getting to a minute and a half and then being like I don't know how I'm still pulling these blitz. I really don't know. I like I had no idea that this was possible and I really can't feel my legs but somehow the speed's there. Like it was a very interesting realization of like oh man there's a whole new level that I haven't even touched on yet. And you know you wouldn't get there unless basically the coach knows to kind of get you to the point of like the cliff and then just kind of boop push you over the cliff until you're to like that new place.
SPEAKER_01So and like so many of you like so many athletes like don't go over the cliff though. You know what I mean? Like and it's the exact same workout. You know it's just it's so much a matter of you know where you're willing to go and who else is going to go there with you, you know, kind of thing. I mean like you've had erg tests before that have felt amazing and then erg tests that have just felt so horrible. And I think all of it boils down to how much control you're in you know whether you feel like control over the experience or not. And I think all of that's just again like head heart legs where are you? Where are you emotionally and physically if you could give one piece of advice to each of the following people what would you say to a rower, to a coxswain and to a coach well I would say to the coach um I think it's important to focus on your why every single day because I do think you're gonna have hard days and you're gonna have great days and I think if you can keep connecting to why you're doing what you do I think it'll all um even itself out. To the coxswain outwork the room just seriously um just always outwork the room. And to the rower um I would say never give up I would say you don't need to be the biggest or the strongest you just need to outlast the room